Arm the Nation

[diamond lil]

Whatever we say just now its all talk anyway. You dono what you can or will do in an emergency until the need arises and it happens.

[LuqmanNaq]

I also am of the opinion that the world is NOT going to collapse into complete societal breakdown and lawlessness, with thousands of rampaging savages running amok in the streets, foaming at the mouth and killing each other for a can of Tesco Value beans and some tea bags.

I disagree with the whole TEOTWAWkI/WROL american survivalist crowd, but crime in any country increases as the economy get's worse, or collapses. In the UK only if you have 'black market' connection can you get a gun, which many criminals do.

Argentina and the USSR are real life examples of what happens when an economy collapses, and they both displayed extremely high levels of violent crime. The police will simply be overwhelmed and underfunded to deal with the amount of crime that will occur.

Displaying a gun is mainly used for diffusion hopefully you'll never have to use it. It's true that people don't know how they will react to emergency. I personally know that I am capable of inflicting serious damage on someone if they attack me based on experience, but killing... however I would like the option of pulling out my weapon and preventing a crime from taking place.


This isn't an attempt at belittling anyone this is a genuine question;

How do the anti-gun people here believe that they will protect themselves if violent crimes become commonplace?

[janso]

I think as preppers, we`re more aware of what might be needed in a SHTF situation, but our innate responsibility and decency tends to mean we are stuck in the `everything`s still all right and lawful` mindset. Maybe we shouldn`t be...after all, isn`t the point of prepping to think what needs to happen after it`s all gone haywire and we can`t rely on legalities and lawfulness any more?

A very valid point there Red .... the areas of use that initially spring to mind is exactly what you use yours for.... a tool to hunt with and protect domesticated cattle, etc from scavengers and other predators.

[diamond lil]

Is a two-pronged discussion really. One half is on the wisdom and advisability of everybody having guns period. And the other one is on after TSHTF. Look at America - there's always kids shooting their brothers and sisters, shooting their parents, parents shooting kids while cleaning guns, teenagers shooting teachers, shooting each other - which is starting to happen in English cities now as well. The more guns, the more shootings.

[Bladerunner]

I am perfectly aware of what a gun is capable of. A friend of mine blew his head off with a shotgun after suffering from depression. The selfish git did it in his mother's house while she was out and she found the body.

I have fired guns at a gun club and am the first to admit that I have never fired one in anger, nor do I even own one. But I would like the right to make that descision for myself.

I was bullied at school and know first hand how evil some people can be. It is estimated that 4% of the population are psychopaths. That is one in every 25 people have absolutely no empathy for other human beings. In a population of 60 million that is about 2.4 million. Having been bullied, it is one thing that makes me flip when I see it happening. I have even stopped my car and jumped out when I have seen what looks like a gang of kids bullying another one.

Gun related crimes increased from around 5,000 offences in 1997 (the year hand guns were banned)to around 11,000 offences in 2005. That's an increase of more than 100% percent in less than 6 years.

In a situation where society is messed up briefly and everything will get back to normal then things will just get a bit tough for people. Weather, natural disaster, EMP, Dirty Bomb, that sort of thing.

But if we are talking about an irreversible catastrophe then things are going to be totally up the creek and it's every man for himself. There will be no police force there to look after us, we will have to do it ourselves and if that means defending what you have with force or just letting someone take it without a fight then I am prepared to fight.

Why should I go to the trouble of prepping for a worst case scenario and stockpiling food and provisions for my family when the first armed looter/druggy can come along and take the lot because he has a gun?

I would love to say I am a pascifist and I do try to avoid conflict at all times but if I am pushed into a corner I would have to do what it takes to protect my family. There is a phrase that "We are only nine meals away from anarchy" and I beilieve that. As long as there is food in the supermarkets and we can buy all the rubbish that we don't need but still crave for, then everything will trundle on fine.

But when people are starving they will do evil things. The Lord of the Flies is a work of fiction but I believe that would happen very quickly in a worst case scenario without law enforcement.

I am planning on a Bug Out Location where me and my family will be well hidden and well supplied so I can avoid conflict. I know someone mentioned there is nowhere more than 2 days walk from a big town or city but if you are well hidden it strongly increases your survival chances. Plus, people tend to stay where they are are home or familiar with. By the time they start venturing out into the country I am hoping they will be malnurished, slow and lethargic, and most of all, unarmed!

If someone feels strongly enough about not having firearms, then that is fine, I just genuinely hope the situation never arises where you think to yourself, "I think this guy might actually use that gun on me and my family, I wish I had one".

The point I am making is we are told that nuclear weapons are a deterent. WHY? Because if you attack me I will fight back. Look at the wars that are being fought around the world. Do you think you will ever see Lichenstein or Berundi attacking the US? No, because they would get their asses kicked back to the stoneage.

Looters will go for the weakest targets first and that is a fact. If you own land or a farm, stick a sign outside saying "The owners of this land shoot rabbits at all hours of the day. Tresspassers run the risk of serious injury or death." I for one, would seriously avoid that place and go for Mrs. Smith's place down the road.

I look forward to more comments on this subject from both sides.

Be lucky

[diamond lil]

I live in an area of big shooting estates, deer and grouse and pheasant. There are lots of guns and lots of suicides and accidents, most of which never get into the paper.
These estates don't put up notices but what they do is "accidentally" let the dogs loose if they suspect anybody sneaking around. The dogs are all kept in kennels and if they cause enough of a racket then a keeper will go and let a couple out and follow them. These are only gundogs, nothing nasty. They'd probably lick you to death but only after they had shown everybody where you were!
Just thinking that if I was a prowler and I was desperate & starving etc etc, and I saw a notice like you describe, then I'd think AHAH -these people must have stuff worth stealing if they have to put up notices like this - and I'd sit up a nice comfy tree for a day and watch for a way in

[Bladerunner]

How very sneaky of you Lil.

I will try and be more vigilant in future, just in case you pop by.

Be lucky

[diamond lil]

Well my mind is fitter and sneakier than the rest of me , so unless it's a very easy tree you'll be ok !

[Carrot Cruncher]

I think that most people would defend their family using whatever level of force required. The question of whether you could do that is different to the question of should guns be easier to buy for everyone

If you want a shotgun certificate for hunting/sport/vermin then the procedure is fairly straight forward so I cant really see the problem. A Fire Arms Certificate is more complicated to get hold of though.

I certainly wouldn't like to live in a place where you could pick one up with your shopping at tesco's. As I said before, sensible people would be fine in most cases but unfortunately there are a lot of stupid people around as well.

Just my 2 pennies worth

[itsybitsy]

.

I certainly wouldn't like to live in a place where you could pick one up with your shopping at tesco's. As I said before, sensible people would be fine in most cases but unfortunately there are a lot of stupid people around as well.

I agree wholeheartedly CC. Morons with guns - doesn't bear thinking about *shudder*.