Firearms for defensive purposes? - A good link

[redskies]

Makes sense, Plympton, and one of the things said in the article linked to previously is that the Swiss automatically think of defending their country when they think of guns. It's a good attitude to have, and far better than a lot of the negative stuff that surrounds them here.

Sadly, though, I don't see our government ever having that much sense - not least because they'd be too worried about a coup!

[12mp82]

I still say that it's a red herring to put a suicide rate into the mix when talking about gun crime, not least because suicide is no longer a crime.

It was more to make the point that easier access to firearms has had a distinct leaning towards the method of suicide, yes they might have chosen another method, but in Switzerland they have made a direct link to the easy access to fire arms.

As has previously been mentioned a number of times I believe, We in the UK can get a firearm in the form of a shotgun by right, we choose not to for whatever reason, If we want a Section one firearm we can have one of those as well, we don't need to change anything, just like the US we can have pretty much anything that is legal in our country just as they can have anything that is legal in theirs. Just that we are more selective as to why we have them.

Why would any law abiding person need an illegal firearm when they can get one quite legally

In an apocalypse scenario, I know which houses to target to find weapons, it just needs a bit of local knowledge. It would actually be easier for me to go that route than the legal route.

Looks like those straws are being clutched at again

In an apocalpse scenario there probably wouldn't need to be a legal route to follow.

[redskies]

It was more to make the point that easier access to firearms has had a distinct leaning towards the method of suicide, yes they might have chosen another method, but in Switzerland they have made a direct link to the easy access to fire arms.

Just because access is easier to one thing than another doesn't mean folks won't find another way. They will. I could list you several - all legal and very effective, minimal kit required. Access to firearms is neither here nor there in the equation.

As has previously been mentioned a number of times I believe, We in the UK can get a firearm in the form of a shotgun by right, we choose not to for whatever reason, If we want a Section one firearm we can have one of those as well, we don't need to change anything, just like the US we can have pretty much anything that is legal in our country just as they can have anything that is legal in theirs. Just that we are more selective as to why we have them.

Why would any law abiding person need an illegal firearm when they can get one quite legally

It's not by right, we gave that one up a while ago. As for why on the illegal firearm front, maybe they don't want anyone else to know they have one, or they don't like the process or they don't feel that they should have to go through the process - just a few off the top of my head. I've never asked anyone; there's never been a situation where it seemed an appropriate thing to do!

Looks like those straws are being clutched at again

Er. Which straws? Not sure where you're going with that one!

In an apocalpse scenario there probably wouldn't need to be a legal route to follow.

I think you can safely leave the 'probably' out of that sentence. And knowing where to go to find what you need is a useful skill!

[12mp82]

It's not by right, we gave that one up a while ago

Sorry to say this but you are wrong.


http://www.sportingshooter.co.uk/featur ... _1_1529690

It is the right of every citizen to have a Shotgun Certificate granted unless the chief police officer believes there are grounds to stop you from having one. He must make these grounds clear in the case of a refusal. A past conviction for a serious crime may be one such reason.

Read, absorb, understand, reply.

[redskies]

It's not by right, we gave that one up a while ago

Sorry to say this but you are wrong.


http://www.sportingshooter.co.uk/featur ... _1_1529690

It is the right of every citizen to have a Shotgun Certificate granted unless the chief police officer believes there are grounds to stop you from having one. He must make these grounds clear in the case of a refusal. A past conviction for a serious crime may be one such reason.

I've just gone and had a quick look through a few links on that (use DDG search engine, with the terms 'shotgun certificate UK' and 'shotgun certificate UK reasons to refuse' if you want to replicate them) and yours seems to be the only one that mentions 'right'. A right is usually enshrined in law; do you have a link to the relevant legislation?

Also, this seems to be pretty much at the discretion of the police, unless you have convictions for certain crimes. That's very open to corruption.

[Triple_sod]

Yeah 12mp82, I can go along with that,

Whether or not gun control actually works, for most people with a clean(ish) criminal record and no recent history of mental health problems, the biggest factor stopping them getting a gun is, they just can’t be arsed….it's too much hassle.

All that form filling…4 pages of it…can you imagine?
having to actually be a member of a gun club or have somewhere suitable to shoot it...what’s all that about?
Fitting a gun cabinet!

Obviously though there are 2 other big issues at play here;

The ban on handguns and semi-automatics, which a lot of people think we’re a pretty cynical knee jerk reaction when the question especially around Ryan and Hamilton, should have really been why did they have access to any sort of guns?

Also the question of firearms for self-defence, which is what started this thread off in the first place….and is a very ambiguous thing in this country.

[12mp82]

Straws again?

You seem desperate to find out you are wrong in writing

Go look a bit harder and get back to me with anything that backs up your attempt to create something that isn't there.

[redskies]

I'm quite comfortable with what I posted. I am unaware of any legislation that enshrines a shotgun certificate as a right in this country. And since you haven't linked to said legislation, I can only conclude that you don't either. I'm afraid a sports shooting website doesn't count!

Triple Sod, are you comfortable with giving the police access to aspects of your medical records? I'm not!

[Plymtom]

Triple Sod, are you comfortable with giving the police access to aspects of your medical records? I'm not!

I'm afraid if we wish to prove ourselves worthy of the sort of trust gun ownership bestows its need to know, and necessity trumps comfort, and if we ever wish to have access to more than we currently do, a psychiatric evaluation may be a must to detect the nutters (we shouldn't name them, that's part of what they wanted), public safety is certainly more important than someones comfort with giving the police access to aspects of your medical records, I haven't fully decided which firearm path to take as yet as regards ownership or license, I'm slightly more concerned about intrusion upon my wife's privacy for checks routine or random, but I can see the necessity of that also and will lump it if and whenever the time comes.

[12mp82]

All that form filling…4 pages of it…can you imagine?
having to actually be a member of a gun club or have somewhere suitable to shoot it...what’s all that about?
Fitting a gun cabinet!

Terrible isn't it

But with a shotgun I am not so sure about being a member of a club and somewhere suitable to shoot it, Well maybe the somewhere suitable to shoot it would be useful, but Clay shooting is a good reason to have a shotgun, and a clay ground is a good place to shoot, what more do you need than that, and a good Biro to fill in the big form

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publicatio ... iew=Binary

You don't always need a gun safe either, a gun clamp may suffice if only one shotgun is owned and the cartridges don't necessarily have to be locked up, but should be in a safe place.

I don't think they have access to all aspects of your medical records for a shotgun, they would just need to ask your GP if they had any concerns over mental health.