Radios and walkie talkies

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Proverbs2712
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:27 pm

Radios and walkie talkies

Post by Proverbs2712 » Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:34 am

Can anybody here tell me a but about licenced radio use.
Do you need to be a licence holder to purchase one of these high powered walkie talkies?
I understand you need to have a licence to operate them just in a SHTF WWOROL situation and one chose to operate it illegally, would that be possible.
So basically I just want to purchase a mobile walkie talkie that I could use a long way from home and also have a base station at home. These would only get turned on I certain situations.
Regardless, I do intend to get a licence eventually but have other preps on my plate at moment. I just want to get the equipment and cross the bridge when I come to it.
Thanks preppers

hedgerowpete
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:18 pm

Re: Radios and walkie talkies

Post by hedgerowpete » Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:47 am

In the uk its very simple,
CB is paper work free, up to and including silly power levels

For any thing else, other than small to tiny power levels your better off going down the ham radio route and getting paper work.

But saying that you dont need paper work to own or to listen through or to set up a radio station. You only need paper work to press the talk button.

The general rule of thumb is most people start with CB radio and follow through to ham radio.

You can buy a used ham radio base station and set up a series of antennas and listen to the world , let alone locally. I find that most newbies find it easier to set up CB rather than working out ham radio antenna set ups. SSB CB will work 50 miles plus with hundreds of miles common place, its easy and cheap to get into and has a lot less pretensious and narrow minded " just trying to be helpfull" people in it.

Personally i went ham radio first and then went to CB, i spend most days driving so use it alot as well as 2m VHF

Depends really what else you want to do with it??

Basic comms and a small budget, its either CB or 2m VHF and baofengs and a decent home base station rig

Comms but with room to grow in a later date, consider a hf/vhf ham radio base station and a decent hand held or in car repeater set up. the base station will also do the SSB CB side at home too and just leaves you with a car set up to get.

Proverbs2712
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:27 pm

Re: Radios and walkie talkies

Post by Proverbs2712 » Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:41 am

Thank you for that decent reply.

I am looking for the best option for when I am at work, up to seventy miles from home to communicate with my wife at home. The mobile radio would need to be as small and light as possible for a backpack but the base station could be anything.

So CB radio does not require a licence ad course to operate but HAM radio does if you want to PTT? If in a WWOROL occurred and I chose to press it can it be overridden? Are frequencies protected in anyway? Is it possible to be a private citizen and own an encrypted or private frequency? Sorry for my ignorance. I am sure the information is all out there somewhere but when it comes from a fellow prepper it has the preppers mentality along with it which is helpful. Thank you for your help.

hedgerowpete
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:18 pm

Re: Radios and walkie talkies

Post by hedgerowpete » Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:34 pm

Proverbs2712 wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:41 am
Thank you for that decent reply.

I am looking for the best option for when I am at work, up to seventy miles from home to communicate with my wife at home. The mobile radio would need to be as small and light as possible for a backpack but the base station could be anything.

So CB radio does not require a licence ad course to operate but HAM radio does if you want to PTT? If in a WWOROL occurred and I chose to press it can it be overridden? Are frequencies protected in anyway? Is it possible to be a private citizen and own an encrypted or private frequency? Sorry for my ignorance. I am sure the information is all out there somewhere but when it comes from a fellow prepper it has the preppers mentality along with it which is helpful. Thank you for your help.
there is next to nothing stopping you buying radio kit and transmitting . Ofcom are just about dead as can get and just as toothless if they even wanted to do something about it.

buy a set up now, try to get started on the traing set ups of getting your ham radio set ups

yes cb can do 80 miles but its at the edge of its limits
ham radio set ups would better suit your needs

Proverbs2712
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:27 pm

Re: Radios and walkie talkies

Post by Proverbs2712 » Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:58 am

Okay. From what I understand from the internet that is a handheld ham radio will transmit and receive from a radius of about five miles. So in order to communicate with home, say I was sixty or seventy miles away how would that occur? Could I make the signal so strong at home to reach seventy miles and a handheld one would receive it and the base at home would receive any transmition?

hedgerowpete
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:18 pm

Re: Radios and walkie talkies

Post by hedgerowpete » Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:13 pm

Proverbs2712 wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:58 am
Okay. From what I understand from the internet that is a handheld ham radio will transmit and receive from a radius of about five miles. So in order to communicate with home, say I was sixty or seventy miles away how would that occur? Could I make the signal so strong at home to reach seventy miles and a handheld one would receive it and the base at home would receive any transmition?
nope that wont work, a hand held that powerfull would probably fry your brain.

to do 80 miles you need a decent antenna at each end and a base rig style radio set up for 100% contact
it could be done with a CB radio set either end set to SSB and big amps each end and again a decent antenna set

but your very fixed with those set ups, a ham set, again base box and antenna is a far better idea once you get your papers sorted. you can transmit from the car but here you would have a small radio set like a FT817 or FT857 and a wire strung up in a tree or a collapasble mast set up, tied to that tree, home is a base station and decent antenna.

as a rule of thumb power and watts mean nothing if the antenna cant hear anything as its a poor design

preparedsurrey
Posts: 536
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Location: Area 3

Re: Radios and walkie talkies

Post by preparedsurrey » Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:02 pm

Pretty sure uk legal CB is limited to either 4 or 8 watts, in ideal circumstances you can get out a long way on that setup. Being on top of a big hill helps a lot.

Running a burner (to boost the power output) was definitely illegal and you end up all mouth and no ears unless you set up well, i.e. Every bugger can hear you for miles and miles but you only receive from the local area
If guns are outlawed then only the outlaws will have guns....

easy rider
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Re: Radios and walkie talkies

Post by easy rider » Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:54 pm

Recently did a couple of trials with vhf 2m and cb fm hand held radios as a comparison.
It was all very unscientific and more as a need to know contact could be made with a friend with a small portable radio .

Both transmit simular power 4/5 watts, both had a upgrade as they say rubber duck antenna however the 2m vhf baofeng uv 5 also benefited from a counterpoise wire ,a very simple free improvement to rx tx of the radio.
The 2m was uv5 to uv5 both upgraded antennas,whilst cb was from handheld to base radio station with big vertical antenna.

Distance was approximately 26 miles ish I believe and whilst one transmission was from high ground the other was within a town built up area and not in the open.


Whilst the cb radio didn't make the contact the baofeng 2m did with a very strong signal and unbroken audio.
Very surprising.
We intend to test further with a couple of portable wire antennas I have made very simply .

Along with this we will test the 8watt tp version of the baofeng uv 5 too from a much greater distance.

Very surprised the cb portable unit didn't make the contact as I have done simular before on dx nets of 40-75 miles.

I believe as said earlier high ground will play a big part in the contact if it can be made with handhelds, wire antenna designes of net can be made to help improve signals too.

Their are some good tools on the net to give you a idea of feet above sea level and identify high ground between two points you choose on flood warning identification map sites you can use .

If your home base is high above sea level and you can take your portable com go high ground too you stand a better chance .
I think the odds are against it realistically to guarantee a contact every time but then again I have made close too those distances.

As already said the uv 5 are decent for the money, look at the 8 watt tri power versions ,every bit helps

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Wingfoot
Posts: 196
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Location: Area 7

Re: Radios and walkie talkies

Post by Wingfoot » Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:04 pm

To get 75 miles with CB you are relying on atmospheric conditions to give you the propagation (signal bounce) currently we are at the low point of the 11 year solar cycle & so the band is seldom "open" these days, in 5 or 6 years time it will probably be open most days.

The most reliable option will be VHF.

If you don't want to take the ham licence you can buy a private licence from Ofcom that allows you access to the buisness section of the 2m band, my work radio is on 162 mhz & I think it's about £80 for a 5 year licence. you can only use the limited frequencies within the licence but it also covers anyone else you deem associated with you, so all of your family basically..

Back to the comms problem set, you will need the best antenna possible at the home base station, if it's a 2m fm set up then a beam antenna would be best but will need to be pointed in the correct direction & will require more knowledge to operate reliably.

Alternatively something like a Diamond X510 would probably do the job, it's a vertical with all round coverage & so needs no manipulation, for the other end of the contact you are going to have to get to the top of the highest block of flats or the highest hill you can find in order for it to be possible, with VHF height is everything, & I mean everything, given enough height VHF will easily go 100 miles, I have done it many times from the trig points of the hills that I do SOTA from.

A roll up "slim jim" antenna on a telescopic fishing pole acting as a support will go a very long way from a position of height, using little more than a 5w handheld like a Baofeng or one of the many other more expensive choices, my old FT60 has proven a solid workhorse over the time I've had it.

Yes you could use 40m on ssb with an NVIS set up antenna but that's getting way beyond the basic knowledge & effort that most want to do, not to mention the much higher cost.

There is no easy answer to the kind of distance contact your asking for, you will need to test if it's possible to ensure a reliable system.

Licence £80
2 x handheld radios £40 - £250 depending of choices made
1 x X510 Antenna £100 new, but can be found used for less.
1 X Slim Jim, £25 from Nelson Antennas on eBay or make one for less than £10

Mount the X510 as high as possible well above roof level & then experiment from the various high points that are within reach of where you will be & see which one gets you the contact with the strongest signal.

Then make a plan that should normal comms fail you will try to contact each other after enough time has been allotted for you to reach your high point & on a time schedule after that from other high points on your route home.

Good luck

Wf
Si vis pacem, para bellum

Arzosah
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Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:20 pm

Re: Radios and walkie talkies

Post by Arzosah » Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:39 am

This thread is gelling with a conversation I had with a neighbour over the weekend - he's just bought a new ham radio base, over £4k, so I presume it's a good'un. He was helping people in the Netherlands mark off the UK during a competition they were having, so it's got good range.

Not that I'd say anything to him right now, because it's a bit apocalyptic, but if I wanted to buy a handset that would be useful to contact him on, what model/dosh would I be looking at? Is there an answer, or is it a stupid question?
My blog (all mended now) www.preparednessfactandfiction.co.uk
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