Future home heating

[jansman]

So what will you do in 2035 if your boiler packs up? I am not being negative,this is a prepping question.

I'm hopeful that repairs and replacements will be possible. Plus we pay to have it serviced every year.

The boiler I last had was 10years old,repaired several times,but eventually the circuit boards were not available.

Health and safety changes to the pipes was the big un. We had just been rewired and the house smashed up and repaired.no way we could deal with that 8 months after!
They say hydrogen may be a fuel.That will definitely need new pipe work.

[jennyjj01]

The scale of work needed for any of these transitions is just off the charts. Not going to happen.

All very noble having targets but though things will get forced through legislation, all that will happen will be destruction of the standard of living of most of us. Schemes will all go the way of HS2: Money squandered: work started: Project abandoned with some work done and some of the old scheme gone to hell in a handcart. Be sure somebody will get rich, but most of us will pay.

Installing Heatpumps: A £12,000 multi day job at best. Upgrading all homes insulation: We saw what a hodgepodge of schemes did to just to get a tiny fraction of homes to get lofts done. Imagine if it was decided that ALL double glazing had to be replaced by quadruple glazing of energy saving glass. That all Upvc frames had to be upgraded. That all walls needed insulating. Hell we couldn't manage to get every letter box draught proofed.

Meanwhile There's not nearly enough Non-gas power stations and they are stupid slow and expensive to install, Ditto car charging points. The National grid cannot suddenly carry twice the electricity. What are we going to do? double the cable in the ground? All these projects would be on a par with say Doubling the width of all motorways or digging a few more channel tunnels. And what major project ever went in under budget and on time?

We are so screwed.

[Yorkshire Andy]

So what will you do in 2035 if your boiler packs up? I am not being negative,this is a prepping question.

I'm hopeful that repairs and replacements will be possible. Plus we pay to have it serviced every year.

The boiler I last had was 10years old,repaired several times,but eventually the circuit boards were not available.

Health and safety changes to the pipes was the big un. We had just been rewired and the house smashed up and repaired.no way we could deal with that 8 months after!
They say hydrogen may be a fuel.That will definitely need new pipe work.

Initially they were talking about a hydrogen/ natural gas blend to reduce emissions....

Most newer boilers are hydrogen ready

Older boilers / cookers would need new jets for the burners...


Dad was sayy it's been done before the man from the gas board would come round and tweek with the old cookers / boilers from town to natural gas

Exhibit a:

https://www.energynetworks.org/newsroom ... s-announce



But it's not all Rosie...

https://www.powereng.com/library/6-thin ... atural-gas

[jennyjj01]

Older boilers / cookers would need new jets for the burners...


Dad was sayy it's been done before the man from the gas board would come round and tweek with the old cookers / boilers from town to natural gas

Exhibit a:Screenshot_20230801-220428.png

I can remember the transition to Natural Gas. An army of newly trained specialists came to EVERY gas appliance.

Profile photo for ChatGPT
ChatGPT
In the UK, the switch from town gas to natural gas in the 1960s and 1970s required the modification of appliances such as boilers, cookers, and fires. Town gas was a mixture of gases created by the destructive distillation of coal and had a different composition and heating value than natural gas. The change involved the replacement of the burners, jets, and regulators in appliances to ensure they could safely and efficiently burn natural gas.As for switching to hydrogen as mains gas, it would likely be a more significant change. While hydrogen can be used as a fuel in a similar way to natural gas, it requires different equipment and infrastructure. For example, hydrogen fuel cells are needed to convert the hydrogen into electricity for powering appliances, and the hydrogen must be stored and transported in specialized containers. Additionally, most modern appliances, such as combi boilers, are not currently designed to operate on hydrogen. The change would require the development of new technologies and the retrofitting of existing appliances, which would be a substantial undertaking.

[Yorkshire Andy]

Older boilers / cookers would need new jets for the burners...


Dad was sayy it's been done before the man from the gas board would come round and tweek with the old cookers / boilers from town to natural gas

Exhibit a:Screenshot_20230801-220428.png

I can remember the transition to Natural Gas. An army of newly trained specialists came to EVERY gas appliance.

Profile photo for ChatGPT
ChatGPT
In the UK, the switch from town gas to natural gas in the 1960s and 1970s required the modification of appliances such as boilers, cookers, and fires. Town gas was a mixture of gases created by the destructive distillation of coal and had a different composition and heating value than natural gas. The change involved the replacement of the burners, jets, and regulators in appliances to ensure they could safely and efficiently burn natural gas.As for switching to hydrogen as mains gas, it would likely be a more significant change. While hydrogen can be used as a fuel in a similar way to natural gas, it requires different equipment and infrastructure. For example, hydrogen fuel cells are needed to convert the hydrogen into electricity for powering appliances, and the hydrogen must be stored and transported in specialized containers. Additionally, most modern appliances, such as combi boilers, are not currently designed to operate on hydrogen. The change would require the development of new technologies and the retrofitting of existing appliances, which would be a substantial undertaking.

I believe that's for 100% hydrogen rather than the intended blend of 20%. Bit like they've done with petrol and stick 10% ethanol in It

[Frnc]

I asked the question,as it will be a big deal when electricity takes over and there’s no gas in the future. Electricity is currently dearer than gas,and I have no doubt that in the future it will remain that way! Current precise price details are irrelevant- electricity ain’t cheap. And that’s now!

Right now,gas is the number one fuel . Back in the day ,before North Sea gas ,central heating was not common. Yes, there were electric heaters etc. but the majority was coal fires! Then gas came in and central heating became common- but that’s only about 50 years- no more!

Another issue is how houses have been designed. Back in the old days most houses had rooms with doors to keep heat in. Now many are open plan with almost Mediterranean tiled flooring,and people walk around dressed as though they are by the swimming pools- in January with the central heating on full bore!

Could you adapt quickly to electric heating!

My house is Victorian, with the original walls and doors. As I say, I sometimes have the c/h off, and an electric rad in my room. It's very good, and fairly cheap. If I use it for a few hours, the electricity used that day doesn't jump up noticeably. On days I used it I still only used about 6.5 kWh, same as normal. However I reckon if I had one in say 3 rooms plus living room (I have 2 lodgers) it would start to add up and be dearer than the c/h. It is 700w and if I set it to about 35%, it runs for about 20 minutes per hour, so it uses just over 200w per hour, ie 1 kW in 5 hours.

Push comes to shove and the government does nothing, I'll have to try to insulate the house better. But that is almost impossible as my external walls are in my room, two lodgers rooms, bathroom, kitchen etc. I could do the front door, but it will be expensive and sad to get rid of the original. There is original cornice on the ceiling. The door has stained glass, and a glass window above. It would cost £ thousands. Maybe I could put a heavy curtain over it. I did have one once, but it kept jamming on its pole so I got rid of it. It's not even cold in the hall, the hall radiator rarely comes on, and I have a thermometer on the landing. The coldest rooms are one lodger's, and the prep room, but that is barely heated. The only thing I could do in my lodger's room is put a new window in.

In my room, the window has draught excluder strips fitted. In the winter I shut it, pull gown the blind, close the curtains, tuck the bottom of them onto the window ledge, seal any gaps with microfibe cloths, and leave it 'til the spring. So my window is kind of insulated. Maybe I could put bubble wrap on the glass, or temporary secondary glazing using acrylic sheet and magnetic tape.

[jansman]

My wife and I have been discussing this. Right now we are rearranging our living spaces to her liking ( mind you ,when wasn’t it that way ? ) One issue is warmth in the future. Unlike all but one of 8 neighbours,they all have two reception rooms knocked into one,and open stairwells. That must be like heating the backyard!
I made sure we have each room with a draught free door. She puts up Winter curtains. We turn stuff off. We certainly don’t need a meter to tell us how much we use! Our current rearrangements are taking this into consideration too. For example in our bedroom we have wardrobes that were put there 3 years ago in an emergency . One of our girls got divorced and had to come home,so the spare room stopped being our wardrobes! When we rearrange,those wardrobes will go against the outer wall and create a form of insulation. You get the idea. Ours is a Victorian house too.
It was very interesting 10 years ago when in our conversation with our central heating chap , he asked me why electric heating ( apart from saving the house from being a building site and costing 10 + grand ) was our choice? I told him that I could see gas shortages ( we were importing heavily then) in the future,and the way solar and wind was being pushed,then it was the way forward. Richard was a very deep thinking man,and he agreed.

Don’t get me wrong,if we still had gas ,we’d still be using it as it’s cheaper! But we haven’t . However,it looks like it will be phased out steadily,at least for domestic consumption.

[Frnc]

The government hasn't even insisted that new builds are insulated enough, let alone taken retrofit seriously. 50 years wasted. French government own our grid and our nuclear power. The grid is being way too slow at connecting new solar and wind sources, sometimes taking several years. The government also needs to decouple electricity from renewables, which is cheaper than electricity from gas now, esecially ove the last couple of years when the price of gas went through the roof. That way would encourage people to use renewable energy.

[jansman]

The government hasn't even insisted that new builds are insulated enough, let alone taken retrofit seriously. 50 years wasted. French government own our grid and our nuclear power. The grid is being way too slow at connecting new solar and wind sources, sometimes taking several years. The government also needs to decouple electricity from renewables, which is cheaper than electricity from gas now, esecially ove the last couple of years when the price of gas went through the roof. That way would encourage people to use renewable energy.

We are not mentioning government…

It’s interesting that private houses are not particularly insulated. However, social housing up the road,built a year or two back was Uber insulated. One of the women living there works with my wife,and she says it certainly cuts fuel usage.

[korolev]

The feller that did our plumbing & boiler said he knows of people that have bought replacement boilers and put them into storage, in order to future-proof having to spend out big after 2035.
The thing is people will be buying gas boilers in 2034 (not as many as now obviously) and expecting to use them for 10+ years so there's no way the gas can just be turned off.

Looking at the bigger picture whatever way we go to heat, whether it's electricity, hydrogen or whatever, it needs a massive infrastructure upgrade and a massive subsidy programme. This is likely to cost hundreds of billions and we need to think how we're going to pay for it; whilst some of us are lucky enough to have savings to dip into, millions do not (50% of Britons have less than £1000).