Permaculture In Existing Woodland

[ukprepperlife]

It looks like there are several permaculture fans on the forum, so hopefully I'll be able to get some advice here.

I have a few acres of woodland that was part of a Larch plantation 40-50 years ago. The Larch trees are still standing, and are huge, but they are now in an area infected with the P Ramorum disease, so they all have to come down. This will leave some areas of the land treeless, but there are also Alders, Holly, Rowan and Birch in other areas. I'd like to start introducing nut and fruit trees on the land and gradually build it into some kind of forest garden based on permaculture principles.

It's in north-west England, so not the warmest climate. It's on a slope, sloping down to the north-east, so it gets the morning and midday sun nicely, but the sun fades out in late afternoon behind the hillside. The prevailing wind is from the west, and some of the existing trees already provide good shelter from that direction. The soil isn't deep, with rock 1-2 feet below the surface in most places. The soil is pretty poor quality, and is slightly acidic. In Autumn and Winter, it's quite wet. There is a stream down one side, and the ground around it becomes quite waterlogged. The Alders do well there. In summer, the stream dries up if the weather is dry for a week or more.

I'll be felling the larch trees soon, and plan introducing new trees this Autumn & Winter.

My questions are:
- Will the fact that it is existing woodland cause problems? Even in the areas that will be treeless, there are a lot of old stumps, and I'm sure many roots criss-crossing the soil. Could pathogens from the felled trees infect new ones? I know that P Ramorum affects Larch, Sweet Chestnut and Rhododendron, not sure about fruit and nut trees though.
- Any good ideas for species that will do well in that environment? I've found wild bilberries (and I'm sure blueberries would do well too), there are plenty of brambles with their berries too, but the only edible fruit trees currently are Rowans with their berries.
- The Alder are good nitrogen fixers, but are there any other species that I should look at introducing as non-edible, but that will help improve the soil, attract pollinators etc?
- There is a lot of bracken covering most of the site currently. Crushing bracken on a yearly basis seems to help gradually persuade it not to grow, but are there any other ways I can use it? Has anyone used bracken in compost?

[jansman]

Well,according to this: https://www.forestresearch.gov.uk/tools ... a-ramorum/
- even bilberries can be infected. It’s a waterborne disease primarily,and you say that the area is pretty much waterlogged most of the time. I am sure you are aware that you can’t even move the felled timber without a special licence.

Have you thought about selling up? I wouldn’t know where to start ,apart from doing research into

a: what ISN’T affected by this disease
b: any likely candidates can live in wet conditions

[Arzosah]

Like jansman, I've no idea where to start, except by research, from reputable websites.

https://www.gardenorganic.org.uk/growing-advice
The classic, national organisation.

https://www.lancswt.org.uk/
You said you're in the north west, and of course that stretches a long way, but this is one of the wildlife trusts in the northwest.

https://earthwatch.org.uk/get-involved/tiny-forest
Earthwatch have become notable enough to take seriously. This is an interesting concept of theirs, and you might be able to apply some lessons.

https://www.permaculturenews.org/2017/0 ... re-design/
A single article from the socking great permaculture website of Permaculture News.

HOWEVER
there's this from DEFRA
https://planthealthportal.defra.gov.uk/ ... ramres.pdf
It lists webpages with further information at the end (not links, which is annoying but minor).

The questions you're asking probably need to be asked of government scientists and research networks, I'm afraid. Articles do name particular edibles that are susceptible, so logically, some edibles *aren't* susceptible. But I don't know - you need that specialist knowledge!

Good luck - and keep us updated on here.

[ukprepperlife]

Thank you for the replies. I know I'm asking questions that probably no one really knows the answer to!

Some great links and resources there, thank you. I've done some reading, but there are some there that I've not seen before.

I did think about selling up, but I've decided not to as 1. I love the location (it's actually just inside the southern boundary of the Lake District), 2. It's great for camping, bushcraft, relaxing, and my son loves the same things 3. The diseased trees currently reduce the value (although to be honest, the 'investment' for me wasn't about the money).

The Forestry Commission require me to fell all the Larch trees, including any new ones that have self seeded that appear over the next couple of years. Sweet Chestnut don't necessarily need felling, because they don't spread the disease in the same way and can recover from it. Larch in the UK doesn't have any genetic diversity, which is why the disease is so bad for them. Luckily, I've found a contractor and sawmill with the relevant licences to take the felled trees off site.

I think in terms of starting introducing new species, my best plan is probably to try out things on a small scale and see what works and what doesn't. Then over the next few years I can gradually start to build up more. It's going to be a very long term project that my son will get more benefit from than me!

I'll keep you updated with what I'm doing!

[ukprepperlife]

Quick update on this. The Larch trees are all now down, and the majority of the timber is being removed next week.
After that I'm going to see what effect felling all of those trees has had on the weather. It will have increased the amount of sun in some areas, but possibly also affected shelter from the wind. I think I'll need to get some hedging planted to provide a little extra shelter.

[WomanOfTheWoods]

Ramorum is here and here to stay,,,, but A healthy bio diverse woodland will be able to handle it and thrive. So I wouldn't worry about it!

I'd concentrate on clearing small areas and planting blackcurrants and gooseberries. Think Food Forest! Until I bought my croft, I believe no one had walked the woods for well over half a century. I found some very old straggly fruit bushes, gave them a good pruning, took slips from the currants. And this year it looks like I will have a bumper crop. You need hedging, so perhaps consider an edible hedge. Sea Buckthorn thrives in exposed sites, dog roses, elderberry. You don't even need to spend a lot. Most are easy to cultivate or can be bought cheaply bare root and planted late Autumn onwards.

And blaeberries (bilberries) can very quickly cover your woodland floor. They make much better jams and pies than cultivated blueberries,

[Arzosah]

Sorry to hear about the ramorum. But sea buckthorn! MMMMmmmmmm! I love it.

[Arzosah]

Sorry to hear about the ramorum. But sea buckthorn! MMMMmmmmmm! I love it.

[Arzosah]

Sorry to hear about the ramorum. But sea buckthorn! Yum! I love it.