just starting out

New Members - Introduce yourself, and say a few words
Frnc
Posts: 3182
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2022 1:54 pm

Re: just starting out

Post by Frnc »

jansman wrote: Fri Mar 25, 2022 8:24 pm So where do you think tap water comes from? Sainsburys? It’s drawn from reservoirs and rivers that are constantly replenished by RAIN. A “ few 10 litre containers “ ain’t gonna cut it here! I store rainwater on an industrial level, with disinfectant capability to match. 10 litres is the minimum recommended amount of water for two people for ONE day.
Yes, but the rain water in water butts is stagnant, rivers are not. Often butts are made in dark colours and get a lot of sunlight, so they tend to be warm. Legionella thrives in water that's 20-50°C. A study by Porton Down found 95% of water butts contained legionella bacteria. Also hosepipes can contain it so the recommendation is to run them for a few minutes without a spay or sprinkler. One man died from inhaling the contaminated droplets. I'm not saying you can't purify water butt water, I'm not researched that. I did have a a quick look just now and it looks like UV, certain chlorine compounds and specialist filters all work. The other thing about water butts is that bird droppings on the roof get into the water.
Frnc
Posts: 3182
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2022 1:54 pm

Re: just starting out

Post by Frnc »

GillyBee wrote: Wed Mar 23, 2022 5:38 pm
Sewage - dig a big hole in the back garden and build a composting loo?
This is a big one I started to look into a while back but didn't get very far. Obviously if sewage/water goes down you need to have a plan. I did order a load of bin bags and some sort of cat litter (pine sawdust pellets). The drill is to pee separately (important), poo into a bag (which could be over your loo, a camping/portable loo, or a bucket), cover it in something like sawdust. Then when it's full, bury (well away from water sources) or burn. A composting loo would be the way to go long term. I have a plastic trowel in my bugout bag. In that I keep some compressed paper towels that come as 'coin's. When you add a bit of water they expand into excellent wet wipes. I also have a load of these in the house (box of 500), plus of course a stash of wet wipes. Wet wipes do have expiry dates on them. I buy the coins that are not individually wrapped as that seems un-eco.
jansman
Posts: 13623
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:16 pm

Re: just starting out

Post by jansman »

Frnc wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 8:17 am
jansman wrote: Fri Mar 25, 2022 8:24 pm So where do you think tap water comes from? Sainsburys? It’s drawn from reservoirs and rivers that are constantly replenished by RAIN. A “ few 10 litre containers “ ain’t gonna cut it here! I store rainwater on an industrial level, with disinfectant capability to match. 10 litres is the minimum recommended amount of water for two people for ONE day.
Yes, but the rain water in water butts is stagnant, rivers are not. Often butts are made in dark colours and get a lot of sunlight, so they tend to be warm. Legionella thrives in water that's 20-50°C. A study by Porton Down found 95% of water butts contained legionella bacteria. Also hosepipes can contain it so the recommendation is to run them for a few minutes without a spay or sprinkler. One man died from inhaling the contaminated droplets. I'm not saying you can't purify water butt water, I'm not researched that. I did have a a quick look just now and it looks like UV, certain chlorine compounds and specialist filters all work. The other thing about water butts is that bird droppings on the roof get into the water.
Thanks for your concern. I am fully aware of Legionella. I am in the food industry,and qualified in advanced food hygiene. But I digress; my system has a constant flow, and and I ‘shock treat’ it a couple of times a year with bleach. Bleach is fantastic stuff. Frowned upon by environmental health officers :lol: Anyhow, that’s my system. I have a soft water well in the yard, but it’s an old style cistern, and no way I would drink that!

I just did a quick calculation, working on the 1 gallon per person per day minimum gig. We have a year’s worth. Of course I have to consider the garden and more importantly my rabbits and fowls , as they need water too.

Anyhow, keep on prepping and do the best you can.
In three words I can sum up everything I have learned about life: It goes on.

Robert Frost.

Covid 19: After that level of weirdness ,any situation is certainly possible.

Me.
Frnc
Posts: 3182
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2022 1:54 pm

Re: just starting out

Post by Frnc »

jansman wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 4:24 pm
Frnc wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 8:17 am
jansman wrote: Fri Mar 25, 2022 8:24 pm So where do you think tap water comes from? Sainsburys? It’s drawn from reservoirs and rivers that are constantly replenished by RAIN. A “ few 10 litre containers “ ain’t gonna cut it here! I store rainwater on an industrial level, with disinfectant capability to match. 10 litres is the minimum recommended amount of water for two people for ONE day.
Yes, but the rain water in water butts is stagnant, rivers are not. Often butts are made in dark colours and get a lot of sunlight, so they tend to be warm. Legionella thrives in water that's 20-50°C. A study by Porton Down found 95% of water butts contained legionella bacteria. Also hosepipes can contain it so the recommendation is to run them for a few minutes without a spay or sprinkler. One man died from inhaling the contaminated droplets. I'm not saying you can't purify water butt water, I'm not researched that. I did have a a quick look just now and it looks like UV, certain chlorine compounds and specialist filters all work. The other thing about water butts is that bird droppings on the roof get into the water.
Thanks for your concern. I am fully aware of Legionella. I am in the food industry,and qualified in advanced food hygiene. But I digress; my system has a constant flow, and and I ‘shock treat’ it a couple of times a year with bleach. Bleach is fantastic stuff. Frowned upon by environmental health officers :lol: Anyhow, that’s my system. I have a soft water well in the yard, but it’s an old style cistern, and no way I would drink that!

I just did a quick calculation, working on the 1 gallon per person per day minimum gig. We have a year’s worth. Of course I have to consider the garden and more importantly my rabbits and fowls , as they need water too.

Anyhow, keep on prepping and do the best you can.
I've not ruled out a water butt, I think I'll get one eventually, even if it's just for watering the garden. Indoors I have about 90 litres in containers, or containers that are ready to be filled. I find 25 litre ones a bit heavy so I keep that empty at the moment. My others are 10 and 5 litre. Another tip I read is if you think the water might go off, fill the bath.
jennyjj01
Posts: 3429
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 11:09 pm

Re: just starting out

Post by jennyjj01 »

Frnc wrote: Mon Mar 28, 2022 9:41 am
I've not ruled out a water butt, I think I'll get one eventually, even if it's just for watering the garden. Indoors I have about 90 litres in containers, or containers that are ready to be filled. I find 25 litre ones a bit heavy so I keep that empty at the moment. My others are 10 and 5 litre. Another tip I read is if you think the water might go off, fill the bath.
Over in the thread Water Butt Stands, the member British Red convinced me of the somewhat ineffectiveness of water butts. I was a devotee, but now I'm undecided again.
As he rightly points out and as I already discovered, a few 100 litres does not go far if using them for the garden in a dry spell. So their primary garden purpose is a bit futile which leaves us as using them for domestic water storage. They stumble somewhat at that because of stagnation issues. I'm rethinking my entire water butt strategy to try to see how they can be best applied. Fortunately for me I have an approx 1m^3 of usable space just for bottled water. As you say 25L is just too heavy, so I favour 2L or 5L. especially 2L which is cheapest.
Filling the bath is not really much use in any kind of medium to long term situation. It might be the best we can manage in a small home, but what's it really going to be good for. It's only up to the sort of situation where you fill a kettle and a couple of pans when the water company schedules a few hours of outage. Long term, post a true shtf situation, it's a toughie. We all need our own stream or well! :!: :roll:

Oh hum. Better that we consider the practicalities now.Image
Graceful Degradation! Prepping's objective summed up in two words. Turning Disaster into Mild Inconvenience by the power of fore-thought

Not Feeling Optimistic. Let me be wrong
British Red
Posts: 428
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2022 11:45 pm

Re: just starting out

Post by British Red »

Considering now is vital. In many parts of the country water towers and pumps are vital to maintain mains pressure and without electricity the taps will soon run dry. However much water we store, a strategy for gathering, transporting and purification surely has to be fundamental to any plan that is even medium term in nature. There's really precious little point in three months of food if we only have 7 days of water ( and that includes washing ourselves, cooking, laundry, etc.)
jennyjj01
Posts: 3429
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 11:09 pm

Re: just starting out

Post by jennyjj01 »

British Red wrote: Mon Mar 28, 2022 11:40 am Considering now is vital. In many parts of the country water towers and pumps are vital to maintain mains pressure and without electricity the taps will soon run dry. However much water we store, a strategy for gathering, transporting and purification surely has to be fundamental to any plan that is even medium term in nature. There's really precious little point in three months of food if we only have 7 days of water ( and that includes washing ourselves, cooking, laundry, etc.)
You are not wrong. Reading recent threads has made me far less comfortable with the water risk situation. We do take our taps for granted and not surprisingly.
If the taps go off medium to long term, we need some way to get distant water to the home, whether it's from a stream or an emergency bowser. Carrying >10L for hundreds of meters is beyond me. I'm newly tilted towards buying something like this Image to fill a hole in my plans

So..... ToDo list
Store max bottles of pure water in available space.
Enhance water butt practicality and capacity.
Prototype a filter rig.
Be ready and able to carry emergency water home.
Consider (im)practicality of harvesting in times of dry weather.

Store more wine!
Graceful Degradation! Prepping's objective summed up in two words. Turning Disaster into Mild Inconvenience by the power of fore-thought

Not Feeling Optimistic. Let me be wrong
British Red
Posts: 428
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2022 11:45 pm

Re: just starting out

Post by British Red »

Those are good...but....you tend to have to decant them into something handier once you get them home. A two wheel sack truck with a 25l tapped Jerry can strapped to it is very flexible and I can, literally, pull it with one finger. I can take photos if you like?
Yorkshire Andy
Posts: 8735
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 4:06 pm

Re: just starting out

Post by Yorkshire Andy »

jennyjj01 wrote: Mon Mar 28, 2022 12:09 pm
British Red wrote: Mon Mar 28, 2022 11:40 am Considering now is vital. In many parts of the country water towers and pumps are vital to maintain mains pressure and without electricity the taps will soon run dry. However much water we store, a strategy for gathering, transporting and purification surely has to be fundamental to any plan that is even medium term in nature. There's really precious little point in three months of food if we only have 7 days of water ( and that includes washing ourselves, cooking, laundry, etc.)
You are not wrong. Reading recent threads has made me far less comfortable with the water risk situation. We do take our taps for granted and not surprisingly.
If the taps go off medium to long term, we need some way to get distant water to the home, whether it's from a stream or an emergency bowser. Carrying >10L for hundreds of meters is beyond me. I'm newly tilted towards buying something like this Image to fill a hole in my plans

So..... ToDo list
Store max bottles of pure water in available space.
Enhance water butt practicality and capacity.
Prototype a filter rig.
Be ready and able to carry emergency water home.
Consider (im)practicality of harvesting in times of dry weather.

Store more wine!
Aldi have some aqua roll type containers coming up on the third of April


However the original aqua roll has a wide range of accessories available

https://www.leisureshopdirect.com/water ... ccessories
If your roughing it, Your doing it wrong ;)

Lack of planning on your part doesn't make it an emergency on mine
Bijela
Posts: 115
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:20 pm

Re: just starting out

Post by Bijela »

jennyjj01 wrote: Mon Mar 28, 2022 10:49 am
Over in the thread Water Butt Stands, the member British Red convinced me of the somewhat ineffectiveness of water butts. I was a devotee, but now I'm undecided again.
As he rightly points out and as I already discovered, a few 100 litres does not go far if using them for the garden in a dry spell. So their primary garden purpose is a bit futile which leaves us as using them for domestic water storage. They stumble somewhat at that because of stagnation issues.
Surely it depends on how many waterbutts you have and if you only use for food production. Also, a few 100 litres of free water still is doing something to help tie you over and save you money.

Maybe someone else knows ? If you joined the tanks so 1 filters its bottom water to the top of the next one. Then use a drill pump on either a windmill or could a solar panel wired to a old battery drill without the battery if it it's slow keep the water moving ? Having the water drop down to the feeding tank would help it be oxygenated and help prevent stagnation issuse ?

I'm only guessing and throwing it out there for words of wisdom.. :tinfoil