Another little step towards a cashless society.

[jansman]

I heard that article on R4 the other morning. Very interesting. I was at work at the time and had just called on a client to pick up £1500:in cash As I stated earlier,our industry is still cash- heavy,and I have always been paid in cash.

The debate will continue,and so will change.I have no doubt that eventually the UK will end up like Sweden.As that evolution occurs,I am sure that computer hacks,software glitches,power cuts and myriad problems not even dreamt of will rear their heads.Then maybe old timers like me will say" it used to to be so simple". And therein lies the problem.

The whole of our society is too complex for its own good.Don't get me wrong,I am not anti technology - this is written on an I pad! Its the total reliance on smart phone/computer technology for just about everything that concerns me.My wife is a primary school teacher and has 4 year old children trying to 'swipe' the cover of a book like a computer tablet - because they have NEVER handled nor seen a book! The internet is good for information, but so are those old fashioned books,and its why we have the British Library.We abandon old ways at our peril I feel.

Back to the BBC article.I found the idea that there has to be a ' call' on the Central Bank,as with cash,HAS to be built into this electronic system.Otherwise the bank robbers won't have to wear masks and carry a bag marked 'Swag'- they will do it from a smartphone.

[Arzosah]

and in fact I'm working on it in The Novel :mrgreen

Interesting , keep us informed as to when it's likely to be available etc.

Thanks! As my own prepping has become more focussed on the medium term, the first half of the novel has changed, and I can definitely see different people's stories emerging. The characters were fine, which surprised me, but setting it more concretely in a particular place that I know fairly well has enabled me to make it more specifically about what prepping opportunities there would be for a couple in their 30s living in that place. In real life, not some apocalyptic future (although that arrives, of course ).

[grenfell]

I seem to recall a sc-fy film with targeted ads that spoke to each person as you passed them , sort of like "hello John you need to buy bloggs shirts as their cotton blend won't irritate your sciatica " . That wasn't the actual line , I just made that up but you get the idea. Probably a bit early for that but I could see it becoming reality.

Blade Runner?
More recently in Thomas Sweterlitsch's novel 'Tomorrow and Tomorrow' where everyone is fully wired in to a digital world. Scary!

Minority Report (2002) - John Anderton (Tom Cruise) has had his eyes replaced to fool retinal scanners:
GAP Sign: Hello Mr. Yakamoto and welcome back to the GAP!
John Anderton: *Mr. Yakamoto?*

Cheers , I did have that one quietly ringing a bell but wasn't really convinced as I try to avoid tom cruise films if possible. To be honest I think the idea may have cropped up in several films and I can recall an episode of Doctor Who where people were all digitally linked with implants .

[grenfell]

I heard that article on R4 the other morning. Very interesting. I was at work at the time and had just called on a client to pick up £1500:in cash

Devils advocate here but that sounds like a perfect example of why we should have a cashless system. One click and the money's in your account saving you the time and expense of collecting the cash and also of course a similar saving for the customer.
Without looking I'm not sure what the limit is but large cash purchases are a problem as laundering is suspected when several thousands are involved and it's one area I think we could see a slow reduction in an amount legally acceptable without too much objection. Slow incremental steps.

[jansman]

The old money laundering thing has been around awhile.Eight years ago I bought a brand new car.£9,999.I was not allowed to pay more than £5,000 in cash,or I was to be 'reported' to whomever for attempting to launder cash.If by credit card,it was a 4% charge,bankers draft another eye watering charge.So its a debit card.

I went to the building society,withdrew the cash,physically put it in my account ( they are used to us paying in cash) and paid for the car that way.Its a total joke!

[pseudonym]

I heard that article on R4 the other morning. Very interesting. I was at work at the time and had just called on a client to pick up £1500:in cash

Devils advocate here but that sounds like a perfect example of why we should have a cashless system. One click and the money's in your account saving you the time and expense of collecting the cash and also of course a similar saving for the customer.
Without looking I'm not sure what the limit is but large cash purchases are a problem as laundering is suspected when several thousands are involved and it's one area I think we could see a slow reduction in an amount legally acceptable without too much objection. Slow incremental steps.

Other side to that is a bank crash, sure the government guarantees your money, but that still doesn't help you straight away. See the lines out the door when it happened last time?

They'll have to drag me kicking and screaming into cashless I'm afraid

[Le Mouse]

I heard the R4 programme too. If I remember correctly, a lot of Sweden's cashless push has been from one of the blokes out of ABBA after his son was violently mugged. I understand the argument, while I don't really agree with it.

I work at a university and all the catering outlets encourage the use of a pre-paid catering card (very like the Oyster card for travelling on London Transport). In fact they offer 5% off the bill for using one and there are special meal deals for card users. The Student Union shop encourages contactless card use or Apple Pay. I refuse to have a catering card and while I occasionally use contactless, will *never* use Apple Pay. I get why it's all been set up - lunchtimes are brutally busy during term time and anything that speeds up the queue is a boon, plus I think there's been a drop in student muggings since it's come in. On the downside, these systems are heavily reliant on a knackered university internet system which has gone down in the past and I'm almost certain will do again many more times in the future.

I'm old fashioned it seems. I like cash. I know where I am with it and what I've spent. In the past I've got myself in trouble by not keeping track of what I pay on a card. Now I try to stick with cash where I can and I maintain a spreadsheet with what goes in and out of my bank account. One of the preps I need to start up again urgently is a cash store at home. The slow increments to cashless started ages ago - about 3 years ago I tried to take a sizeable amount of money out of my account (well, more than the machine would allow me) and the bank made it very hard indeed. I was really cross that I couldn't get at *my* money.

The R4 programme mentioned old people finding cashless difficult. My mum really does - she only ever uses cash. She doesn't even have a chequebook. It's becoming harder and harder for her to pay bills. There's one bill now where I had to pay online for her until we worked out where the local 'Payzone' was. She's on a higher paying tariff for gas and electric because she wants to pay cash. The whole concept of direct debit freaks her out and in fact I don't think her mega-basic-nearly-extinct bank account allows her to have them. I doubt she's the only older technophobe with the most basic of bank accounts who deals exclusively in cash. She's not even that old - only 64. Once her generation has gone, then that's when cash will be done away with.

Back to the BBC article.I found the idea that there has to be a ' call' on the Central Bank,as with cash,HAS to be built into this electronic system.Otherwise the bank robbers won't have to wear masks and carry a bag marked 'Swag'- they will do it from a smartphone.

Yip. Also we have seen across Europe, all the other banks can fail plus they are private companies so they can just refuse service.

[jansman]

Its interesting what you say about getting in a muddle with a cashless system Le Mouse.Years ago my brothers firm went cashless.He got in a right old mess,and the bank manager ( remember them?) advised him to draw cash each week and use an 'envelope' system.That is,put your cash out each week for this, that and the other. It took him a year but it worked.Indeed,the envelope system is advised by debt charities I believe.

My eldest never has cash.If she needs it she'll borrow from mum and ' ping' it to her bank.Youngest draws the cash she needs each month and lays it out for her expenses.She keeps a better track.

I guess its what suits you,but if we ever were totally cashless and anything went wrong,there would be a lot of folks going hungry pretty damned quick.

[Deeps]

Its interesting what you say about getting in a muddle with a cashless system Le Mouse.Years ago my brothers firm went cashless.He got in a right old mess,and the bank manager ( remember them?) advised him to draw cash each week and use an 'envelope' system.That is,put your cash out each week for this, that and the other. It took him a year but it worked.Indeed,the envelope system is advised by debt charities I believe.

My eldest never has cash.If she needs it she'll borrow from mum and ' ping' it to her bank.Youngest draws the cash she needs each month and lays it out for her expenses.She keeps a better track.

I guess its what suits you,but if we ever were totally cashless and anything went wrong,there would be a lot of folks going hungry pretty damned quick.

While we're pretty prepped in most regards things like fuel for the car would be an issue for example, I don't keep extra diesel. I ran down the cash in the house to pay for our season tickets for the football and only had a hundred in which I had to use today to pay for my laptop to be fixed. We're officially cash poor again and the missus was asking if I wanted her to take some money out to keep in the house as she thought I was getting 'twitchy'. I get my pussers pension on thursday so I'll be topping it up again, despite me telling her not to bother, I hate not having any money in the house, I don't even have my emergency stash in my wallet, scary times.

[grenfell]

I heard that article on R4 the other morning. Very interesting. I was at work at the time and had just called on a client to pick up £1500:in cash

Devils advocate here but that sounds like a perfect example of why we should have a cashless system. One click and the money's in your account saving you the time and expense of collecting the cash and also of course a similar saving for the customer.
Without looking I'm not sure what the limit is but large cash purchases are a problem as laundering is suspected when several thousands are involved and it's one area I think we could see a slow reduction in an amount legally acceptable without too much objection. Slow incremental steps.

Other side to that is a bank crash, sure the government guarantees your money, but that still doesn't help you straight away. See the lines out the door when it happened last time?

They'll have to drag me kicking and screaming into cashless I'm afraid

I'm in the same camp as you but just to play that devil's advocate a little more bank crashes ( and for that matter much of what concerns us here) aren't everyday occurrences and although when it has happened there's been some discomfort for some the system(s) have pretty much muddled through surprising as it may seem. To me the biggest sticking point is not possible crashes or economic woes but that for the whole thing to work perfectly more financial control needs to return to central governments. Leaving it all to private institutions and market forces seems a recipe for disaster . Letting private banks be able to create new money in the first place was a mistake in my eyes and they aren't wantin to give anything up if they can help it.
Le Mouse is right it was one of the ABBA guys behind some of the campaigning. I do wonder though just what effect it might have with regards to crime. I said earlier hat it might result in a drop in muggings and handbag snatching but ruminating on it might that crime be replaced with muggers threatening violence against someone or their family until they hand over phone numbers , pins etc?