Being the Gray Man or Woman

[diamond lil]

We've got tons of gamekeepers and poachers and big estates, Scotland is full of them. Mostly foreign owned. Not sure on poachers, but gamekeepers can be nasty little buggers.

[tfish]

Since it's never happened then nobody knows how it will go:

Katrina happened.

Cops killing Citz just cos they were in the way or maybe even racist.

People raping, robbing and killing their neighbours and fellow survivors..

The hell that was the superdome "rescue facility"

Cops deserting in their hundreds to be with and care with their familys.

Gov leaving the people to fend for thereselves.

Private Security "armys" being brought in to deal with things cos the army cant/wont.

Id say this is a fair benchmark of how it will go.

[Brambles]

Oh good grief!
Before you start spouting 'facts' get them from a reliable source!
After Katrina there were a lot of problems. It was a major weather event. However,
The Police did not go round killing citizens willy nilly.
Yes some put family over duty.... what would you do? it would seem you've damned the leo's both ways.
Gangs were mostly responsible for the crime, don't for one minute generalise about the population of New Oreans.
What the hell do you expect to happen when that many people are squeezed into a small place. It's impossible to police. Or would you prefer the Big Brother approach? UKP Mantra Never Become a Refugee.
The Army and Police force were overwhelmed, Private companies were backup.
I'll give you the Govt's slow response.
Never rely on the media for news, it's sensationalised carp and they cherry pick the interviews to put TPTB in as bad a light as possible because that's more newsworthy than the couple down the road handing out soup and water. You don't mention the communities who pulled together and did what they could for themselves.

[TomW]

@BDE Proportionally wise I would say big shooting estates account for very little of the number of shoots there are. The large ones that are left also have very few staff. The days of the big house holding shooting parties pretty much died with the majority of the staff that ran them during ww1. A lot of shoots are now much smaller and often share the same land as farms you mention, in some cases the shooting rights provide the financial security that keep them going. When I was a keeper I worked with one other guy running three different shoots, all were over agricultural land where the farming came first. So even if you don't see them, they're probably still there

@Lil Don't tar us all with the same brush, some of us are very nice people Like so many groups were easily identified and quickly vilified by the media when the occasional bad apple comes to light Also try to remember that we are at work when out in the woods and our jobs depend on what happens within them. That's not to say that some keepers aren't complete arseholes permanently but most just come across like that from working alone too much

[Carrot Cruncher]

And the romantic image of the old fasioned poacher taking one for the pot is not the case either, although i'm sure there are still some. Plenty of violent gangs involved and they can cause a lot of damage to wildlife and to people. I quite often listen to "Farming Today" on R4 early in the morning and it seems to be an increasing problem

[diamond lil]

Re Katrina, I dont compare anything that happens in America with here, we aren't the same... I meant it hasn't ever happened here.
I never would tar everybody with the same brush- But a lot of them are "gie rough" shall we say! Re gangs, we had a few probs with Eastern Europeans in the central belt, not sure if that's still going on. I know they cleaned out a fish farm near here that's way back in the hills.

[bulldogeagle]

@BDE Proportionally wise I would say big shooting estates account for very little of the number of shoots there are. The large ones that are left also have very few staff. The days of the big house holding shooting parties pretty much died with the majority of the staff that ran them during ww1. A lot of shoots are now much smaller and often share the same land as farms you mention, in some cases the shooting rights provide the financial security that keep them going.

most of the shooting parties and corporate events seem to happen north of here Tom, up against the Devon/Somerset border on the edges of Exmoor, thats where people with money settle, not down here with us common folk!