No jab, no job

Medical and Healthcare
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rik_uk3
Posts: 378
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:49 pm
Location: South Wales UK

Re: No jab, no job

Post by rik_uk3 » Sun Feb 28, 2021 1:27 pm

jansman wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:20 pm
Where do you stop though? Insist on a mandatory HIV test? Ask for proof of measles vaccination? Or insist on full - on access to your personal medical records? Perhaps we should get everyone lined up, jabbed up and tattooed to say so? Just watch out if you refuse to though and are asked to get on a train and go to the showers. A little Austrian fella who fancied himself as an artist tried to force a country to fall into line by force and all have blonde hair and blue eyes...
HIV is not easy to get.

To be honest unless you have one of the rare medical conditions that stop you having the vaccine then I've no problem with those people being refused employment. There are next to no justifiable excuses for not having the jab. Sadly a lot of people listen to fake news/my mate said or have jumped on the American soapbox proclaiming 'its my human right' well I don't give a toss, what gives you the right to infect others.

Just have the jab.
Richard
South Wales UK
Retired, spending the children's inheritance.

jansman
Posts: 9220
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:16 pm

Re: No jab, no job

Post by jansman » Sun Feb 28, 2021 6:11 pm

rik_uk3 wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 1:27 pm
jansman wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:20 pm
Where do you stop though? Insist on a mandatory HIV test? Ask for proof of measles vaccination? Or insist on full - on access to your personal medical records? Perhaps we should get everyone lined up, jabbed up and tattooed to say so? Just watch out if you refuse to though and are asked to get on a train and go to the showers. A little Austrian fella who fancied himself as an artist tried to force a country to fall into line by force and all have blonde hair and blue eyes...
HIV is not easy to get.

To be honest unless you have one of the rare medical conditions that stop you having the vaccine then I've no problem with those people being refused employment. There are next to no justifiable excuses for not having the jab. Sadly a lot of people listen to fake news/my mate said or have jumped on the American soapbox proclaiming 'its my human right' well I don't give a toss, what gives you the right to infect others.

Just have the jab.
I will TRY to lay this to rest. My wife,a cancer survivor,is due her vaccination.We are both well into our 50’s.She will have it. When MY turn comes,I shall have it.End of. END OF. I deal with ,everyday, folks who look like they have just come off of The Jeremy Kyle Show - sorry,it’s a fact ,it’s the same 20 to 30 something Chavs-who won’t wear a face covering. A measure that has PROVEN to be very effective.I suspect it will carry into next Autumn/ Winter- which I think will be a GOOD THING!Sorry to be a bit shouty.

However; I will maintain that mandatory proof/ passports/tagging/ goes against the free and easy democratic process that defines this country.I can leave my home,and carry no identification at all. In some nations,that is a crime.In our country it is not.We should value that.Democratic freedoms have been fought and died for.For heaven’s sake,women were imprisoned/ force fed / and died ,just to get The Vote.Women now have that vote,and take that freedom for granted.We all, men and women take our freedoms for( sadly and lazily) very much for granted.

The current vaccination appears to be doing it’s job.That is good.

The above quote misses the point though. Where do you stop.Mandatory HIV test ( it ISN’T easy to catch- NOT WHAT I WROTE), but it WAS a statement about freedom. Where do you stop?

We are a very free country,and because we are free it is taken for granted. Freedom should be valued.I hope my point is understood.
In three words I can sum up everything I have learned about life: It goes on.

Robert Frost.

Covid 19: After that level of weirdness ,any situation is certainly possible.

Me.

Bosworth
Posts: 258
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:03 pm

Re: No jab, no job

Post by Bosworth » Sun Feb 28, 2021 8:02 pm

I riled against your posts perhaps unfairly. I agree 100% with the personal freedom angle - I rant to my friends and family to death about rights and police powers 😬

What grated for me was the comparison with other diseases and the harm to self versus harm to others balanced with the obligations of employers to keep the workplace safe.

As an employer I have an obligation to keep my employees safe. That’s different from an obligation to support them if they are sick.

Cancer and HIV and most other diseases affect self and family. Covid has the potential to affect others and therefore to protect my wider team I would have no qualms about excluding someone from my workplace who chose not to have the jab. That would make them unable to perform their duties and would start the process of dismissal.

I suspect that would end in a tribunal and I’d pay them off with 4 months salary. But so be it.

The problem is that other people’s freedoms impact my obligations. Their choice, my pain. That’s not fair and costs me time and money as a result of someone else’s principles.

jansman
Posts: 9220
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:16 pm

Re: No jab, no job

Post by jansman » Mon Mar 01, 2021 5:26 pm

Bosworth wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 8:02 pm
I riled against your posts perhaps unfairly. I agree 100% with the personal freedom angle - I rant to my friends and family to death about rights and police powers 😬

What grated for me was the comparison with other diseases and the harm to self versus harm to others balanced with the obligations of employers to keep the workplace safe.

As an employer I have an obligation to keep my employees safe. That’s different from an obligation to support them if they are sick.

Cancer and HIV and most other diseases affect self and family. Covid has the potential to affect others and therefore to protect my wider team I would have no qualms about excluding someone from my workplace who chose not to have the jab. That would make them unable to perform their duties and would start the process of dismissal.

I suspect that would end in a tribunal and I’d pay them off with 4 months salary. But so be it.

The problem is that other people’s freedoms impact my obligations. Their choice, my pain. That’s not fair and costs me time and money as a result of someone else’s principles.
Thanks for your reply. You are right; principles do carry a cost in a lot of situations, the workplace probably more so. However, I would say that those principles and freedoms are worth far more than mere cash. One only has to look at oppressive regimes around the world, and the struggle of their populations to gain freedoms that we take absolutely for granted, but they can only dream of. This is a good country to live in.
In three words I can sum up everything I have learned about life: It goes on.

Robert Frost.

Covid 19: After that level of weirdness ,any situation is certainly possible.

Me.

Bosworth
Posts: 258
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:03 pm

Re: No jab, no job

Post by Bosworth » Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:45 pm

That is true.

The difficulty is that your principles (if you worked for me) would cost me my cash. If your principles cost you your cash then that would be different. And I would respect them more if you personally suffered as a result.

In my experience, principles are very easy to hold if they cost other people money rather than costing oneself.

Am not for a moment saying you are in that category. I’ve followed your posts for a long time and you seem to be one of the most straight-up clear and full of integrity people I’ve nudged up against. Theoretical conversation.

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pseudonym
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Location: East Midlands

Re: No jab, no job

Post by pseudonym » Tue Mar 02, 2021 12:24 am

Nearly a quarter of NHS staff in London are refusing Covid vaccines:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/0 ... -vaccines/

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rik_uk3
Posts: 378
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Location: South Wales UK

Re: No jab, no job

Post by rik_uk3 » Tue Mar 02, 2021 5:42 pm

Medical staff in many cities and most certainly London draw heavily of workers from the BAME comminuty hence dip in London. The BAME communities is the highest sector of people who listen to friends and social media, thankfully this is now being addressed by community leaders...better late than never.
Richard
South Wales UK
Retired, spending the children's inheritance.

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pseudonym
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Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:11 am
Location: East Midlands

Re: No jab, no job

Post by pseudonym » Tue Mar 02, 2021 5:55 pm

rik_uk3 wrote:
Tue Mar 02, 2021 5:42 pm
Medical staff in many cities and most certainly London draw heavily of workers from the BAME comminuty hence dip in London. The BAME communities is the highest sector of people who listen to friends and social media, thankfully this is now being addressed by community leaders...better late than never.
Must be how my dad caught it. :roll:

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