WHO warns vaccinated travellers could still need to be quarantined

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Arzosah
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Re: WHO warns vaccinated travellers could still need to be quarantined

Post by Arzosah » Fri Jan 01, 2021 10:13 am

Nurseandy wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 7:30 am
The issue appears to be that transmission post vaccination has not been researched so they just don't know.
Exactly. Lack of knowledge means that many of us will be erring on the side of caution. It's a perfectly valid viewpoint.

Bosworth
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Re: WHO warns vaccinated travellers could still need to be quarantined

Post by Bosworth » Fri Jan 01, 2021 11:25 am

Exactly. The fact that there hasn’t been long enough to prove that something isn’t true is not the same as safely assuming it is true.

I can’t think how this vaccine can be any different to any other vaccine in this regard. It will work well for most people, it will harm a vanishingly small number of people, and it won’t work at all for a few.

Once we have vaccinated folk over 70 and those who are vulnerable then the rest of us should be able to take our chances. If we choose to of course, respecting individual decisions to stay locked away if that is what those individuals want to do.

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jennyjj01
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Re: WHO warns vaccinated travellers could still need to be quarantined

Post by jennyjj01 » Fri Jan 01, 2021 3:16 pm

Bosworth wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 11:25 am
Exactly. The fact that there hasn’t been long enough to prove that something isn’t true is not the same as safely assuming it is true.

I can’t think how this vaccine can be any different to any other vaccine in this regard. It will work well for most people, it will harm a vanishingly small number of people, and it won’t work at all for a few.

Once we have vaccinated folk over 70 and those who are vulnerable then the rest of us should be able to take our chances. If we choose to of course, respecting individual decisions to stay locked away if that is what those individuals want to do.
Hi Bosworth,
I don't assume that vaccinated folk are likely to be spreaders or super-spreaders. I try not to assume either extreme.
But I did feel concerned when I merged the remarkably unanswered question with my own observation of human nature.
We already see governments pitching the levels of precautions at the minimal to allow normal economic activity. No reall attempt to crush the virus as New Zealand attempted.
Especially topical is the concept of vaccination certificates being mandated for international travel and possibly for other social mingling.
If the virus does make us more relaxed (reasonable) and it does make us mingle and travel more (reasonable) but does not actually reduce R, then it seems reasonable to be concerned at what we don't know but might take for granted.

I AM feeling more optimistic, but will continue to be cautious.
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Bosworth
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Re: WHO warns vaccinated travellers could still need to be quarantined

Post by Bosworth » Sat Jan 02, 2021 12:37 am

It isn’t possible to crush the virus reliably. Viruses are very good at what they do. It is ever thus in the history and pre-history of our species.

I think we are aligned in that until there are tangible positive results flowing through In the numbers then there won’t be any cause for relaxing social and economic restrictions.

But... and a big but!... for me the number that matters the isn’t R or the absolute infection rate, it is the leading indicator of hospital admissions. Put simply: is the number of people admitted to hospital with serious COVID complications trending up or down, and how fast is it doing so?

I don’t care if 50m people have the virus. I don’t care if 20m of them are in bed feeling very sorry for themselves (me included probably on those numbers!).

I do care if 50k are hospitalised such that our health service is becoming overwhelmed.

The Nightingales are being reactivated with urgency. The noise in the media about ‘staffing levels’ is just back-room dealing bubbling into the public eye to aid negotiations behind the scenes.

We are so close to getting this thing under control. Hold the faith for a bit longer jennyjj01. If you were anywhere near North London I’d invite you for a socially distanced walk and share some relevant stories and journeys that would give you hope I’m sure :)

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jennyjj01
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Re: WHO warns vaccinated travellers could still need to be quarantined

Post by jennyjj01 » Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:17 am

Bosworth wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 12:37 am
I think we are aligned in that until there are tangible positive results flowing through In the numbers then there won’t be any cause for relaxing social and economic restrictions.
I agree.
I do care if 50k are hospitalised such that our health service is becoming overwhelmed.
Indeed. The postponement of normal medical care is a nightmare.
We are so close to getting this thing under control. Hold the faith for a bit longer jennyjj01. If you were anywhere near North London I’d invite you for a socially distanced walk and share some relevant stories and journeys that would give you hope I’m sure :)
Thanks.
I AM feeling more optimistic, and full of hope. But I will continue to be cautious.
Graceful Degradation! Prepping's objective summed up in two words. Turning Disaster into Mild Inconvenience by the power of fore-thought

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ForgeCorvus
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Re: WHO warns vaccinated travellers could still need to be quarantined

Post by ForgeCorvus » Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:10 pm

jennyjj01 wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:17 am

I AM feeling more optimistic, and full of hope. But I will continue to be cautious.
You do remember that this is the definition of "Prepper" ?

If we weren't cautious we wouldn't prep, and if we had no hope we wouldn't want to survive.


A virus that kills (or severely incapacitates) its host is less likely to thrive.
Part of the reason C-19 has done as well as it has is because of those who are/were asymptomatic or only suffering very mild symptoms.
So, its in the virus's best interest to become less deadly or incapacitating insuring that more hosts are able to pass it on....... This is one of the reasons I'm surprised that this little bleeder seems to of just popped up the way it did.
jennyjj01 wrote:"I'm not in the least bit worried because I'm prepared: Are you?"
Londonpreppy wrote: At its core all prepping is, is making sure you're not down to your last sheet of loo roll when you really need a poo.
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jansman
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Re: WHO warns vaccinated travellers could still need to be quarantined

Post by jansman » Sat Jan 02, 2021 6:32 pm

ForgeCorvus wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:10 pm
jennyjj01 wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:17 am

I AM feeling more optimistic, and full of hope. But I will continue to be cautious.
You do remember that this is the definition of "Prepper" ?

If we weren't cautious we wouldn't prep, and if we had no hope we wouldn't want to survive.


A virus that kills (or severely incapacitates) its host is less likely to thrive.
Part of the reason C-19 has done as well as it has is because of those who are/were asymptomatic or only suffering very mild symptoms.
So, its in the virus's best interest to become less deadly or incapacitating insuring that more hosts are able to pass it on....... This is one of the reasons I'm surprised that this little bleeder seems to of just popped up the way it did.
What a great way of putting it!
In three words I can sum up everything I have learned about life: It goes on.

Robert Frost.

Covid 19: After that level of weirdness ,any situation is certainly possible.

Me.

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