Novel use of a crisp packet!

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peejay
Posts: 514
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:48 pm
Location: Midlands, UK

Novel use of a crisp packet!

Post by peejay » Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:50 pm

Better than nowt I guess but still surprised it was actually useful.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-57885400

Vitamin c
Posts: 92
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:16 pm

Re: Novel use of a crisp packet!

Post by Vitamin c » Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:38 pm

Cheese and onion if he was lucky.

Winterprep
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:55 am

Re: Novel use of a crisp packet!

Post by Winterprep » Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:12 pm

I was taught to use a credit card for sucking chest wounds.

Was desperate to ask if Visa was better than Mastercard 🤣

Yorkshire Andy
Posts: 5303
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 4:06 pm

Re: Novel use of a crisp packet!

Post by Yorkshire Andy » Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:38 am

Latest first aid advice from European resuss council guidelines advises against what was known as a taped three sides dressing due to the risk of it becoming occlusive

6. Sucking chest wounds should be left open to the environment - Three sided dressings are no longer recommended.


Due to clinical experience of both improvised and purpose made dressings inadvertently becoming occlusive, the ERC guidelines recommend to ‘leave the wound in open communication with the environment’. This means that there is no longer a requirement to cover it with a dressing. The main emphasis on providing care should be to ‘do no harm’, and the risk of dressings becoming occlusive is significant.
https://www.qualsafe.com/pages/Resuscit ... dance.html
If your roughing it, Your doing it wrong ;)

Lack of planning on your part doesn't make it an emergency on mine

Appin
Posts: 224
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:04 pm

Re: Novel use of a crisp packet!

Post by Appin » Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:46 pm

The problem over sucking wounds is odd.

The lung is held to the chest wall by suction. The "space"between the lung and chest wall is filled with a tiny amount of fluid and effectively does not exist. If air leaks from the lung either due to trauma / stab wound / bullet wound etc or a spontaeous leak ( yes it does happen), then you get air in that space and the lung collapses. ( see the case one xray on this link and you can see what happens quite well https://radiopaedia.org/articles/pneumothorax)

The thing is you only need about 10 -15 % of your lung working to sit at rest so you can walk around with only one lung working. The danger comes if air is trapped in the space around the collapsed lung causing a build up of pressure called a tension pneumothorax. That can start to press on the other lung with disastrous results.

The Resus Council guidance reflects that for most people a sucking wound is OK provided the air moves both in and out. Worst case occlusion turns a non pressurised into a tension preumothorax and makes things worse. Thats why they say don't occlude. you should be OK on one lung. May years ago I saw someone with a very severe infection around their lung and the chest surgeon had deliberately created a hole in the chest wall and you could see the lung within. The patient was quite OK!

The catch comes with any pressure build up and if you have wounds on both sides of your chest so both lungs are collapsing. Then you need someone who knows what they are doing very fast. Paramedics and people who compete the Advanced Life Support and Advanced Trauma Life support courses are taught how to drain trapped air from around a lung ( it takes literally a few seconds if you know what to do). Wounds to both lungs likewise need some fast work but can be managed.Years ago I heard a talk from the late Surgeon Commander Risk Jolly the boss of the Ajax Bay Field Hospital in the Falklands. He said over 90% of chest wounds were handled using a drainage technique and only 2 needed actual surgery.

Appin

Arzosah
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Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:20 pm

Re: Novel use of a crisp packet!

Post by Arzosah » Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:21 am

Appin wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:46 pm
Years ago I heard a talk from the late Surgeon Commander Risk Jolly the boss of the Ajax Bay Field Hospital in the Falklands. He said over 90% of chest wounds were handled using a drainage technique and only 2 needed actual surgery.

Appin
What a bloke! As wikipedia says, "He was also the only person to be decorated by both sides for his work in the Falklands War."
The full article is worth reading https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Jolly

Appin
Posts: 224
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:04 pm

Re: Novel use of a crisp packet!

Post by Appin » Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:31 pm

If you can find a copy his book "The Red and Green Life Machine" is an interesting and easy read.

If anything it is a book about leadership as much as history. He had to get two groups who had a long standing and bitter rivalry to work as a team. Red - Paras Green = Royal Marines. He was Marine himself so to speak ( he had done Lympstone as well as being a Naval Surgeon Commander). His descriptions of what he did are interesting.

One other noteworthy piece of bravery was the RAF bomb disposal officer who slept near an unexploded bomb to give the surgical team confidence to carry on working.

A friend who was in the Royal Marines more recently says relations are much better now with quite a few Marines completing parachute training and Paras getting boat training.

Article by Jolly himself

https://jrnms.com/JournalArticle.ashx?ID=12547

This piece of kit is designed to get around the problems the Rsus Council are talking about. I don't know if our ex military have come across it or similar.

https://www.spservices.co.uk/item/ACSAs ... 294_1.html

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