pro / con generator v Jackery ( or similar)

[Appin]

After a chat with my wife ( who is supportive of my prepping) I was left thinking.

Currently we are being warned that the heat may cause electricity failures in the next few days and that this winter gas shortages etc may in the "reasonable worst case scenario" lead to power cuts never mind anything else. I am trying to pro con a modest portable generator v a jackery power bank or similar.

I am not sure how well the formatting will hold up so please forgive me I couldn't make a table work.

Generator v Powerbank

Cost £500 for 2kW true sine wave v £475 500W with 1kW surge

Fuel 15 litres petrol but could syphon from car v Mains or solar panel recharge

Duration Typically 4- 10 hours per 5L if not at full 2kW v 500Whr = some hours endurance

Recharging Limited by fuel v Solar so in theory indefinite - but winter solar charging?

Max power Enough for freezer or run central heating v Small electricals only

Noise Variable but 56 - 60 dB v Silent so very discrete

Wiring Could be wired into main fuseboard v Free standing only
( Legal issues so requires electrician)

Overall generator seems to work best for a power cut lasting days but not indefinite as fuel becomes an issue. Power bank works best at bridging intermittent power outages EG rotating power cuts as in the 1970's. The generator would save your freezer contents while they were used up. No such ability from a power bank but would make keeping laptops and similar charged easier.

What have I missed? The choice is individual but what do people think. Which way would you go assuming you have the money.

[jansman]

The question to ask,in my humble opinion,is what do you want to power? I say this because of my own experience.I had a big old site gennie for years,and frankly,never used it. I would turn it over regularly,keep it serviced etc. but it was noisy! Very,very noisy. In an emergency,what would it do? Run the freezers pretty much.

So I decided to get shot. If things really went South ,the noise would attract far too much attention TBH. Also ,now ,the price of petrol is far too high to make it viable.Storage of juice is another issue too. I made the decision to lose the freezer contents if anything happens.In Winter ,there would be anything up to a week to try and use the contents.In Summer,I’d fire up the grill,and get family and friends over and try to chomp through it! In fact,we try not to carry too much in the two small freezers now.

As for the power packs,like the Jackery - types ,I cannot comment. They certainly look tidy ,and are quiet of course. We have forum members who have them,and perhaps they will chip in? I would be interested to know,although I cannot justify the price if I am truthful.

However,I do carry battery powered lighting in case of power cuts,and power packs to charge phones and tablets etc.although in a proper crash,there would be no mobile phone relays ,nor internet either. So lighting is the one,although given the heat right now,I am looking at a USB electric fan . In stock are plenty of alkaline,and rechargeable batteries,along with half a dozen little power banks.Also a couple of solar panels for emergency charging- when the sun shines anyway.

That is my situation,but of course,we all have different requirements.

[British Red]

I have both, you've summed up pros & vons well. You are allowed to store far more than 15L of fuel provided that you notify appropriately, but I prefer using propane generators because the fuel doesn't go off and has other uses

[Nurseandy]

Hi British Red, I'm in jansmans camp. I've banged on about this before but we were relatively badly affected by storm arwen (no power for 100 hours) and again by the next storm, about another 70 hours no power. To be honest it wasn't too much of a bother. We're a family of five ( 3 teenagers) and we ate the freezer contents, house was heated by a woodstove, cooked on two trangias placed on the hob, plenty of alternative lighting and water was gravity fed from private supply.
As it went on we had to recharge laptops in the car and use mobile phones as WiFi hotspots for work but that was the only hassle really.
Actually a pretty enjoyable family time with board games, wine & chocolate.

[jansman]

Hi British Red, I'm in jansmans camp. I've banged on about this before but we were relatively badly affected by storm arwen (no power for 100 hours) and again by the next storm, about another 70 hours no power. To be honest it wasn't too much of a bother. We're a family of five ( 3 teenagers) and we ate the freezer contents, house was heated by a woodstove, cooked on two trangias placed on the hob, plenty of alternative lighting and water was gravity fed from private supply.
As it went on we had to recharge laptops in the car and use mobile phones as WiFi hotspots for work but that was the only hassle really.
Actually a pretty enjoyable family time with board games, wine & chocolate.

170 hours in total,with no electric is a real test in this modern world. Especially with teenagers. I wouldn’t knock anyone for having a generator at all ,but for me it was definitely the noise signature that ended my ownership. It’s bad enough that my neighbours comment on my constant stream of firewood !

[jennyjj01]

After a chat with my wife ( who is supportive of my prepping) I was left thinking.

Currently we are being warned that the heat may cause electricity failures in the next few days and that this winter gas shortages etc may in the "reasonable worst case scenario" lead to power cuts never mind anything else. I am trying to pro con a modest portable generator v a jackery power bank or similar.

I am not sure how well the formatting will hold up so please forgive me I couldn't make a table work.
....
Overall generator seems to work best for a power cut lasting days but not indefinite as fuel becomes an issue. Power bank works best at bridging intermittent power outages EG rotating power cuts as in the 1970's. The generator would save your freezer contents while they were used up. No such ability from a power bank but would make keeping laptops and similar charged easier.

What have I missed? The choice is individual but what do people think. Which way would you go assuming you have the money.

Hi Appin,
I too had this quandary, which I chose to deal with on minimal budgets, Eventually I was quite persuaded by Jansman's arguments. Money was not an issue, but I didn't want to splash out thousands, so built up slowly.

I already have a (£45 preowned) 650W two stroke genny which could keep my four freezers cold, but it's dreadfully noisy for a SHTF situation, and it drinks fuel. It would be a total waste to use it for lighting or even for laptop/tv powering. Post SHTF it would be a waste of petrol. It would only have value if it were only modest Electricity outage that was being dealt with.
More recently I explored solar on a budget and pretty much realised that something like a 30W solar panel and a car battery could keep battery lamps charged for long or short power outage. I've now pulled together a bigger system of some cheap solar panels (260W worth) and pre-owned inverter, with a New leisure battery and for around £250 have a resilient garage power supply that could keep one fridge freezer going mostly unaided, or all 4 freezers for short duration, with a bit of mains left to power the central heating pump. Like a Jackery, my system can get a rapid recharge when mains is available, so it's both solar source and power storage.

Key takeaways.....
If things are so bad that electricity is off long term, them petrol will be too precious.
For rolling power cuts, it's about power storage, not generation.
Using any kind of electricity for heating or cooking is a BIG ASK of any setup. Maybe a slow cooker or teacup immersion heater at a pinch.
You can recharge or power a fair number of LED lamps with even a small solar system.
Any electricity you generate is going to be precious.
Post apocalypse, we need to surrender the idea of Freezers and electric cooking.
and personally....
Grid Tied Domestic Solar without batteries is worse than useless for preppers.

[Frnc]

After a chat with my wife ( who is supportive of my prepping) I was left thinking.

Currently we are being warned that the heat may cause electricity failures in the next few days and that this winter gas shortages etc may in the "reasonable worst case scenario" lead to power cuts never mind anything else. I am trying to pro con a modest portable generator v a jackery power bank or similar.

I am not sure how well the formatting will hold up so please forgive me I couldn't make a table work.
....
Overall generator seems to work best for a power cut lasting days but not indefinite as fuel becomes an issue. Power bank works best at bridging intermittent power outages EG rotating power cuts as in the 1970's. The generator would save your freezer contents while they were used up. No such ability from a power bank but would make keeping laptops and similar charged easier.

What have I missed? The choice is individual but what do people think. Which way would you go assuming you have the money.

Hi Appin,
I too had this quandary, which I chose to deal with on minimal budgets, Eventually I was quite persuaded by Jansman's arguments. Money was not an issue, but I didn't want to splash out thousands, so built up slowly.

I already have a (£45 preowned) 650W two stroke genny which could keep my four freezers cold, but it's dreadfully noisy for a SHTF situation, and it drinks fuel. It would be a total waste to use it for lighting or even for laptop/tv powering. Post SHTF it would be a waste of petrol. It would only have value if it were only modest Electricity outage that was being dealt with.
More recently I explored solar on a budget and pretty much realised that something like a 30W solar panel and a car battery could keep battery lamps charged for long or short power outage. I've now pulled together a bigger system of some cheap solar panels (260W worth) and pre-owned inverter, with a New leisure battery and for around £250 have a resilient garage power supply that could keep one fridge freezer going mostly unaided, or all 4 freezers for short duration, with a bit of mains left to power the central heating pump. Like a Jackery, my system can get a rapid recharge when mains is available, so it's both solar source and power storage.

Key takeaways.....
If things are so bad that electricity is off long term, them petrol will be too precious.
For rolling power cuts, it's about power storage, not generation.
Using any kind of electricity for heating or cooking is a BIG ASK of any setup. Maybe a slow cooker or teacup immersion heater at a pinch.
You can recharge or power a fair number of LED lamps with even a small solar system.
Any electricity you generate is going to be precious.
Post apocalypse, we need to surrender the idea of Freezers and electric cooking.
and personally....
Grid Tied Domestic Solar without batteries is worse than useless for preppers.

I've been thinking about solar too. But only to power my phone. Looking at solar panels in the £50 to £200 range. I like the idea of the ones that roll up and only weigh about half a kg. But they aren't cheap. So far I have a power bank with solar panel on one side, and a wind up radio with a solar panel. I've no idea if the solar can charge them in anything like a realistic time. I did have a solar powered lamp but that died. I want to get another, but one that can be USB charged. I've seen one thats about £15.
Anyone recommend a decent solar panel? Ideally portable and not too dear.
I have little interest in buying a generator.
For cooking I'd rely on gas canisters and meths, and if they ran out, I have small wood burning stoves. I try to keep food that only needs hot water or a quick fry, or can be eaten straight from the tin (eg tuna). This is where slow cooking comes in, eg pasta or even rice. Is slow the right word? Where you add hot water and leave insulated for half an hour or so. So I have lots of oats, pasta, instant mash, some pasta sauces, and lots of tuna.
Frozen food will last a few hours to couple of days without power. Depending on what it is. You need a thermometer to see how warm it's got. If meat goes above 4 °C for 2 hours you have to bin it. So get it cooked and have a feast!
https://www.foodsafety.gov/food-safety- ... wer-outage

[Frnc]

This bit is worth noting re freezers

"A full freezer will hold a safe temperature for approximately 48 hours (24 hours if it is half full and the door remains closed). Food may be safely refrozen if it still contains ice crystals or is at 40°F or below, however, its quality may suffer. Never taste food to determine its safety. Use this chart as a general guide." (my emphasis, same link as above)

40 °F = 4 °C

[British Red]

Hi British Red, I'm in jansmans camp. I've banged on about this before but we were relatively badly affected by storm arwen (no power for 100 hours) and again by the next storm, about another 70 hours no power. To be honest it wasn't too much of a bother. We're a family of five ( 3 teenagers) and we ate the freezer contents, house was heated by a woodstove, cooked on two trangias placed on the hob, plenty of alternative lighting and water was gravity fed from private supply.
As it went on we had to recharge laptops in the car and use mobile phones as WiFi hotspots for work but that was the only hassle really.
Actually a pretty enjoyable family time with board games, wine & chocolate.

It's okay to have varying views. The thing is we have four, very large, freezers. A generator means that we don't lose the contents in an extended power outage. Not every power cut is a world changing event as you've experienced and, even if it was very prolonged, because we have a propane bulk tank, we can run the generator for months. That would give me time to dry, can and salt down all four freezers.

I'm not too worried about security for noise. Our super quiet Honda will be drowned out by the shipping container sized 3 phase monsters that most of the farms have. To run a fridge bigger than a barn, you can imagine the size .

We do have solar, power banks etc. as well of course, but options are nice

[jansman]

I would be interested to know what the solar generation units can do. In the real world, that is.