2020 Potential Economic Collapse

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preppergb
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Re: 2020 Potential Economic Collapse

Post by preppergb »

diamond lil wrote: Thu Apr 09, 2020 11:16 am I'd get rid of debt, buy the household stuff you think you might need now, don't wait, and if at all possible grow some food .
Yup we are taking advantage of the three month mortgage holiday we got and diverting that money to paying off cred card debts.
jansman
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Re: 2020 Potential Economic Collapse

Post by jansman »

We are caught between a rock and a hard place aren't we? We know the economy is in freefall ( this virus has simply accelerated what was inevitable), and we know we need an ' economy ' to live as we do. We know that our money will be buying less quite soon, and that there is not much we can do about it,quite frankly. What to do?

We have experienced the shock and awe of ravaged supermarkets recently,and that alone has brought home to many ( not just us preppers) the realisation that at a personal level at least,we need resilience. Resilience at a personal level and national.That may take the form of food resilience,which could be a well stocked pantry,a garden or allotment,moving up to local farm and food networks,then right up to central government overseeing a policy of greater self sufficiency.We may have to live on a simpler diet,as right now it is apparent that countries such as Spain,ravaged by the virus,have serious labour shortages.This time of year ,a heck of a lot of produce comes from Spain,and what is to stop them from keeping it for themselves when thenext crisis rears it's head?

We also need a more localised life,a simpler life.One way or another I think we will be forced into it,as our current system is slowly but surely falling apart.We need to ,as a country, wean ourselves from the teat of the ' financial industry '. The fact that that parasitic,' industry ' is the most revered and valued is testament to how the bonkers way society is ordered.Right now, health,food and agricultural workers,some of the most poorly paid workers,are regarded during this crisis as vital. Who needs a financial advisor? We need grub though!

We shall have to have a rethinking ( I think) of whom and what has real intrinsic value to society,because money per se,is likely to become less important.

The here and now though,like the above,reduce debt,and store tangible items like long life foods,seeds for next season,and all those types of things.If your readies disappear in an electronic puff of smoke,all that stored gear will take on a whole different meaning and value.
In three words I can sum up everything I have learned about life: It goes on.

Robert Frost.

Covid 19: After that level of weirdness ,any situation is certainly possible.

Me.
bobble
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Location: merseyside

Re: 2020 Potential Economic Collapse

Post by bobble »

preppergb wrote: Thu Apr 09, 2020 10:26 am In europe the EU is in turmoil over its economics, The southern states are in a dreadful mess ( spain, portugal, italy and greece, but the northern states are refusing to the demands for massive finalcial aid, all the north is doing is offering to put the south into even more debt. I think i read greeces debt is now 260% of GBP. Germany faces a massive recession. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/20 ... ing-north/

So as per the 2008 crash the EU is muting the idea of skimming 20% from every citizens current and savings accounts electronically as they did in Cyprus, naturally the public hate the idea and are trying to withdraw cash in large amounts, but most of you will have already noticed many banks are either shut or have greatly reduced opening hours. trouble is I dont know the following (A) are they talking about haircutting the southern EU states or (B) ALL the EU states accounts (C) is the UK at risk still ?

I have NO answers I can only suggest we all need to be looking closer at our governments and banks financial intentions for the near future and at least consider withdrawing SOME or ALL of our savings only leaving enough in place to pay our standing orders.

Look at it this way SOMEONE is going to have to pay back the bazillions of pounds the UK /EU is spending to keep the country going, and the chances are its going to be Joe Public.
Thank you for posting this, you've really made us think very hard about where this is all going!
omega man
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Re: 2020 Potential Economic Collapse

Post by omega man »

preppergb wrote: Thu Apr 09, 2020 10:26 am In europe the EU is in turmoil over its economics, The southern states are in a dreadful mess ( spain, portugal, italy and greece, but the northern states are refusing to the demands for massive finalcial aid, all the north is doing is offering to put the south into even more debt. I think i read greeces debt is now 260% of GBP. Germany faces a massive recession. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/20 ... ing-north/

So as per the 2008 crash the EU is muting the idea of skimming 20% from every citizens current and savings accounts electronically as they did in Cyprus, naturally the public hate the idea and are trying to withdraw cash in large amounts, but most of you will have already noticed many banks are either shut or have greatly reduced opening hours. trouble is I dont know the following (A) are they talking about haircutting the southern EU states or (B) ALL the EU states accounts (C) is the UK at risk still ?

I have NO answers I can only suggest we all need to be looking closer at our governments and banks financial intentions for the near future and at least consider withdrawing SOME or ALL of our savings only leaving enough in place to pay our standing orders.

Look at it this way SOMEONE is going to have to pay back the bazillions of pounds the UK /EU is spending to keep the country going, and the chances are its going to be Joe Public.
I've heard nothing about skimming funds from UK banks and I think its extremely unlikely. Branches may be reducing hours, however online banking and cash machines are 24 hours. So closing branches makes no material difference to the publics ability to spend. Sweeping funds from accounts aside from being likely to cause public rioting etc is illegal, unethical and extremely difficult to co-ordinate due to the different ways funds flow through individuals accounts. Not to mention the downstream impacts it would have on public debt as D/Ds start to bounce.
No,being realistic, if the government had the notion to make the public pay, it would be through tax increases that hit before your money reaches your account.
Withdrawing cash is pointless as it only becomes relevant to do so if the banking system collapses, and if that happens it means the economy has completely collapsed and money ceases to have value anyway. In which case you've successfully withdrawn lots of pretty pieces of paper with the queens head on it.

OM
jansman
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Re: 2020 Potential Economic Collapse

Post by jansman »

In three words I can sum up everything I have learned about life: It goes on.

Robert Frost.

Covid 19: After that level of weirdness ,any situation is certainly possible.

Me.
omega man
Posts: 237
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:02 pm

Re: 2020 Potential Economic Collapse

Post by omega man »

jansman wrote: Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:12 pm Have a read of this : https://consciousnessofsheep.co.uk/2020 ... omy-wrong/
Whilst I normally dodge COS that was a gripping and thought provoking article (read frightening). Thanks Jansman

OM
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Arwen Thebard
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Re: 2020 Potential Economic Collapse

Post by Arwen Thebard »

There are alternatives to the "business as usual" model of the past 50 / 75 years? Too many people thinking of just getting back to how we did things until very recently. Its time for (some) people to think and live differently IMO. Major changes to our financial and economic systems are happening right now, while we are focused on CV19. Its a whole new world being forged folks.
Arwen The Bard

"What did you learn today?"
omega man
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Re: 2020 Potential Economic Collapse

Post by omega man »

Arwen Thebard wrote: Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:12 pm Major changes to our financial and economic systems are happening right now, while we are focused on CV19. Its a whole new world being forged folks.
Hi ATB,
If you could garnish that sentence with some detail I'd happily be educated.

Cheers,
OM
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Arwen Thebard
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Re: 2020 Potential Economic Collapse

Post by Arwen Thebard »

omega man wrote: Thu Apr 09, 2020 10:29 pm
Arwen Thebard wrote: Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:12 pm Major changes to our financial and economic systems are happening right now, while we are focused on CV19. Its a whole new world being forged folks.
Hi ATB,
If you could garnish that sentence with some detail I'd happily be educated.

Cheers,
OM
OM, the major system changes that I see which are happening now include;

1) The [unprecedented] levels of central bank money creation and their purchasing of equities/stocks/shares.
(Apart from the fact that this is not strictly a central bank role, their coordinated actions appear to be those of an un-elected, global financial governance body and the unrestrained and unlimited buying on these levels, in an attempt to prop up a failing market, is unlikely to end well. Central banks around the world will end up owning a great deal of pretty much everything, very soon).

2) The wide separation between the so called "Wall Street" and "Main Street"
(Such wide ranges in inequality tend to precede major financial and societal changes leading to disruption and new ideas coming forward, see 4 below. When THEY (the 1%) dont even try to hide the massive inequality any longer, something is clearly wrong and many people are now realising this. The evaporation of easy credit and the drying up of available cash funding for the masses leads to a swift deterioration in living standards, revolutions often start here).

3) The unsustainable levels of debt across the board, personal - household - corporate - government & sovereign.
(Many people would agree that peak debt has already been reached and this is often sited as a precursor to major financial change, unfortunately this current health scare and lock-down will leave an awful lot of people in even more debt and with even less assets. It will also mean the destruction of many SMEs and micro businesses while the larger corporations are more likely to survive).

4) The economic power shift moving from West to East.
(Not just in classic forms of manufacturing but also in digital financial opportunities including crypto currencies and blockchain technology. Eastern Countries recently accounted for 70% of all digital asset trades I believe and are already way ahead of us [West] in preparations for rolling out their own sovereign crypto currencies, some could be available to citizens at the end of 2020. If you include global resource depletion (Oil / minerals / food) as a financial / economic factor, then the potential for major changes via a real war scenario is unfortunately all too clear).

5) Loss of confidence.
(Both the general public and professional investors & analysts have lost confidence in the free market system and those charged with its proper regulation and function. When so few banking crimes lead to conviction and "crime pays" [at least for those at the top] rampant corruption is another well understood precursor to major change).

I've seen a few economic problems come and go over the the past 60 years, but nothing anywhere even close to this. We are seeing the destruction of working and middle class wealth, the ushering in of draconian measures without question and the blatant, IMO criminal misappropriation of money on a global scale leaving our great grandchildren to pay the bill. We may have dogged the climate change invoice for a while, but at potentially even greater cost.

I could go on and set out some of the other reasons I think we are witnessing such major changes, but I would be getting into conspiracy theory territory and we dont want to go down that rabbit hole, this is way too serious a problem and hopefully the truth will be revealed sometime soon.
Arwen The Bard

"What did you learn today?"
omega man
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Re: 2020 Potential Economic Collapse

Post by omega man »

Thanks for taking the time to reply in such detail Arwen..
I appreciate that.
Oddly as I was reading that, the news channel was announcing the EU making 500 Billion available.

I see this is a complex multi headed beast... my next question (that I'm sure will interest the forum as a whole):

"Exactly what are your views on how fellow preppers can insulate themselves against this coming storm, if that's even possible?.

OM