Universal Basic Income

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PrepperMum
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Universal Basic Income

Post by PrepperMum » Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:38 pm

Hi all,

A new poster here.

I was just wondering if the Universal Income was ever introduced, whether that would change plans?

I mean, if the SRHTF, it would not be happening but if it was introduced, I wonder how it would effect things for Preppers.

For me, I would consider moving out of area, to somewhere to get more land. But, the flip side of that would be a colder climate and that would have an impact on the growing cycle.

Just general musings from me, I guess :D

Best wishes.

jansman
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Re: Universal Basic Income

Post by jansman » Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:57 pm

I followed the UBI thing back in the late 80's when the Green Party floated the idea.In principle,it was a good idea.I found this from the Joseph Rowntree Foundation.They advise on poverty.

https://www.jrf.org.uk/blog/universal-b ... er-poverty

There is no free lunch.
In three words I can sum up everything I have learned about life: It goes on.

Robert Frost.

PrepperMum
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Re: Universal Basic Income

Post by PrepperMum » Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:51 pm

Very true, but if it did go ahead if it would change the way people prepped.

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Deeps
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Re: Universal Basic Income

Post by Deeps » Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:52 pm

Hadn't realised that Finland had stopped it. Its an idea that appeals to me because it throws the responsibility back on the individual. I'm a massive fan of our Welfare State and the notion behind it but I have to figure that in with my hatred of a 'nanny state'. I'll 'ca canny' on taking things down a more political route

jansman
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Re: Universal Basic Income

Post by jansman » Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:03 pm

Trouble is with UBI, like our current welfare system, is that to prosper,it needs taxpayers: i.e. People with jobs.
In three words I can sum up everything I have learned about life: It goes on.

Robert Frost.

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Arwen Thebard
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Re: Universal Basic Income

Post by Arwen Thebard » Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:29 pm

The idea of funding UBI through a wealth / land / asset based tax system rears its head from time to time, which might be easy enough to implement.

It would depend on the level of UBI payment as to whether it could make a serious difference to our prepping. Might buy a few more goodies and stock, but probably not enough to help buy the farm in the country.
Arwen The Bard

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jansman
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Re: Universal Basic Income

Post by jansman » Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:37 am

Interesting in that article,that it touched on an Alaskan expriment ( I suspect amongst the Native American population- I seem to remember reading at the time).With a UBI, there was no noticeable take- up of full - time employment.Part- time,yes.

Which would indicate that people would ' top up' with part- time to make a full- time income.I would not blame them a bit,but you can easily see how this would lead to lower GDP and general productivity,and a downward tax spiral.Meaning that UBI would be unsustainable in the long term.
In three words I can sum up everything I have learned about life: It goes on.

Robert Frost.

grenfell
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Re: Universal Basic Income

Post by grenfell » Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:59 pm

jansman wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:03 pm
Trouble is with UBI, like our current welfare system, is that to prosper,it needs taxpayers: i.e. People with jobs.
Or more specifically it needs businesses and corporations to pay their taxes , the likes of google , Starbucks and the shitezers named affter the South American river . But greed being what it is they use loopholes , off shorting and any other trick they can to avoid taxes. This instantly puts the idea on the back But by far the biggest problem is that thiis idea like so many rely on growth and growth is slowing as the energy that fuels it becomes scarcer and harder to get to. Its thinking always of continuous growth that is prevelent on al sides of the political divide , none seem to understand the limits to growth , even the greens talk of it ffs.
People working part time rather than slaving away full time shouldn't necessarily be seen as a bad thing , it's pretty much only since the industrial revolution and increasing urbanisation that we've worked to the clock rather than more natural rythemes. I've heard modern day people described as wage slaves and recently read a very good comment that went along the lines of "if you don't believe you're a slave take tomorrow off and just go out with the kids"
As a politically left leaning person the idea of redistribution of wealth should be something I would want and to a degree it is but wiith an envoiirommental head on it isn't , at least not in 'this form ( wealth destruction would be better in that case than wealth redistribution). Put the money into services the public can access or use rather than spend would be a far better idea because it would affect people's habits prepper or not. Spread wealth out and people will spend more and more importantly consume more , buy more stuff , travel more( pollute more) to make their lives " richer" or " better" .
On the plus side for this to be introduced we'd have to have a pretty stable and prosperous economy , probably or ideally globally , which would to a degree make prepping or at least some aspects of it effectively redundant.

jansman
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Re: Universal Basic Income

Post by jansman » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:24 pm

Regarding corporate tax: gvt. takes the view that they create employment.I guess that is why they dont get stung.We need employment.

I am a staunch trade unionist ,as is my wife.However,we are pragmatic.Too many people dragging from ' The System' and not enough putting in.It aint rocket science.
In three words I can sum up everything I have learned about life: It goes on.

Robert Frost.

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Deeps
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Re: Universal Basic Income

Post by Deeps » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:42 pm

Its all a lot more complex than it seems (well to me anyway), the argument about people going part time doesn't stack up, market forces also play a part, if everybody in the country got 8K a year (one of the figures I saw getting bandied about) then if you live hand to mouth its a big help. If you aspire to more then it won't make a huge difference. Tax rates can be adjusted etc. As it is we now thankfully work less hours than we used to anyway and have more flexible working in a lot of environments so if someone wants to work 25 hours a week instead of 35/40 then its a step in the right direction (in our comfortable Western corner of the world). There will be people on here who remember a saturday morning as part of the working week, we're getting more concerned about how people actually want (or need) to work.

I like the simplicity of it and that it makes us take charge of our own lives, aye, there will be some that feck it up, there always are and I can't see it ever happening but it does appeal to me. From what I can tell, what's the difference in being able to plunder your pension pot ? I'm far from an expert so happy to be shot down but allowing the oldies to empty their pensions for 'the now' is risky, there seems to be an element of 'prodigal grandad' but not willing to open it to the rest of society. I can understand the concerns and especially in the society we live in, I can see the short to medium term problems, never mind the outrage. Its not going to happen anyway so no point losing any kip over it.

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