Feeding the masses

Food, Nutrition and Agriculture
jansman
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Re: Feeding the masses

Post by jansman » Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:43 pm

Stonecarver wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:09 pm
Is that per month Jansman or DAILY
Per week.

Thinking whilst fishing today; add in eggs,cheese,ingredients,tea,coffee...the list is huge.

However,think about that pub/restaurant near you,or MacDonald,or Pizza Hut,chip shop,curry house,or...you name it.They all deal in those kinds of volumes of food.Let's face it,this island is fast approaching 70 million people living upon it.That takes a lot of grub.
In three words I can sum up everything I have learned about life: It goes on.

Robert Frost.

Stonecarver
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Re: Feeding the masses

Post by Stonecarver » Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:27 pm

jansman wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:43 pm
Stonecarver wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:09 pm
Is that per month Jansman or DAILY
Per week.

Thinking whilst fishing today; add in eggs,cheese,ingredients,tea,coffee...the list is huge.

However,think about that pub/restaurant near you,or MacDonald,or Pizza Hut,chip shop,curry house,or...you name it.They all deal in those kinds of volumes of food.Let's face it,this island is fast approaching 70 million people living upon it.That takes a lot of grub.
You have summed it up nicely
One sure sign of the decline of a civilisation is the inability to reproduce the technological achievments of its past

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Arwen Thebard
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Re: Feeding the masses

Post by Arwen Thebard » Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:22 pm

Stonecarver wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:32 pm
A lot of people keep saying they cant imagine food shortages happening here. A few years ago I remember the weather forecast showing the entire British mainland all white covered in snow. If it had lasted for any length of time we would have had big problems.
Interesting article describing a shortage of some canned foods in the large US stores, along with price hikes on many staples.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-07- ... able-items
Arwen The Bard

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jansman
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Re: Feeding the masses

Post by jansman » Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:00 am

Interesting link. As a species, humans now forget that food is grown( as it always has) and not procured by some whizz - bang -techno -fix. I kid you not, when customers ask me about meat, and I start to tell them the rearing process ( they asked!), they rapidly shut me up. They are totally divorced from the food chain. My old boss used to say,” they don’t turn it out at Rolls Royce madam” , when a joint of beef was not a perfect cube or magazine colour- image.

Having lunch yesterday, sitting on a terrace at the seaside, I observed a truck delivery to three separate restaurants in the vicinity. This company can supply everything. I deal with them too. That firm delivers on the Just In Time System. However, it needs a 24 hour lead-time to fulfil your order. They cannot just magic it up.

Returning to our rural holiday cottage, we called into the one shop in the village. Pretty well stocked, but their fridges had gone wrong and they lost a LOT of stock. It set me thinking that in a rural area , mass feeding would be tough. It is a long way out, and that makes it expensive to achieve. The prices reflect that. My son in law just took the dog a walk up there to buy a newspaper ( the broadband is hit and miss too), and the shop owner says that only by teatime today, will he be almost fully restocked.

IF tptb deemed it achievable, then mass feeding would happen only in urban areas I feel.
In three words I can sum up everything I have learned about life: It goes on.

Robert Frost.

Arzosah
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Re: Feeding the masses

Post by Arzosah » Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:14 am

I've just been reading Deep Winter https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/ ... eep-winter the guy is an upper middle class American (conservative Christian) deep into prepperdom when they start to get a string of natural disasters followed by all-out apocalypse ... the detail of food and power production, plus house repairs and the gradually growing need for defence, plus the political ramifications, is astonishing. Can't say I agree with all of it, but the unfolding events, at least, are portrayed very realistically and seemingly well thought out - no view of the cities until the gritty bits are over, though.

As for what's happening now ... I agree with jansman, if everything went down at the same time, the cities would get preference. I notice the phrase "if its achievable"! Lets hope that no government action of the sort shown in The Death Of Grass happens! Anyway ... the countryside would fend for itself to some degree - in the floods of the last few years, farmers and their tractors have been indispensible.

Talking about just in time ... at the end of my last catsitting gig for my nephew, his mum told me that he had some time free at the airport on the other side of the world (as you do) and he put in a same day Sainsbury order online, for a couple of hours after his return home. Popping into the local corner shop, or even local supermarket, isn't how a lot of people think.
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featherstick
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Re: Feeding the masses

Post by featherstick » Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:22 am

This is a really interesting discussion.

As a contribution, Simon Fairlie of The Land magazine reckons Britain could feed itself, theoretically. However the changes in land use and diet are so profound as to make it almost unthinkable. This is also only a discussion on production, not on processing or distribution. It's nevertheless an interesting read.

http://www.thelandmagazine.org.uk/artic ... eed-itself

jansman
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Re: Feeding the masses

Post by jansman » Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:52 pm

featherstick wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:22 am
This is a really interesting discussion.

As a contribution, Simon Fairlie of The Land magazine reckons Britain could feed itself, theoretically. However the changes in land use and diet are so profound as to make it almost unthinkable. This is also only a discussion on production, not on processing or distribution. It's nevertheless an interesting read.

http://www.thelandmagazine.org.uk/artic ... eed-itself
Good link.Thanks.The link below mentions distribution mainly ( in a world that currently has more than enough grub), but also localised production,and ethanol production for fuel.I read the other day about a suggestion to government that more ethanol in vehicle tanks would be better for the environment,( even though it takes food- growing land). As a society we seem to have rather mixed up values,but as featherstick says,changes to land use and diet would be beyond drastic.The main problem too,in my personal opinion,is that the majority of the uk population are too lazy and selfish to accept and enact changes to bring Food Security.

https://www.cnbc.com/id/100893540
In three words I can sum up everything I have learned about life: It goes on.

Robert Frost.

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Arwen Thebard
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Re: Feeding the masses

Post by Arwen Thebard » Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:43 am

"The main problem too,in my personal opinion,is that the majority of the uk population are too lazy and selfish to accept and enact changes to bring Food Security."

Very true.

People also seem to be mentally unfit these days, they just don't think enough or pay attention, so are unaware of what is going on around them. I imagine many would be unable to process the concepts of food production, distribution, shortages etc. Sad.
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Arzosah
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Re: Feeding the masses

Post by Arzosah » Sat Jul 20, 2019 12:57 pm

I don't think thats *quite* the whole story ... I think there's a normalcy-bias type thing going on, where people can't really believe it can get that bad. By 1957, Harold MacMillan could say, and have it believed, that Britain had never had it so good: http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/date ... 728225.stm but we look at the "high point" of 1957 now and its like a Third World country. Even I only know some of the detail of what things were like then because I was asking about family history all the time as a kid :mrgreen: Since then, living standards have gone up and up and up (though I'd also argue that some things have gone down in quality - noise pollution, clothing quality, food quality in some ways, maybe a few other things).

People wanted a better world for their kids, they wanted their kids to be safer, more secure. Well, we are! But there are unintended consequences to that - most people haven't known anything but security and safety and rising standards - thats an *achievement*! But the unintended consequences are coming back to bite us now, and the swing of the pendulum will probably be fierce.
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jansman
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Re: Feeding the masses

Post by jansman » Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:12 pm

Arzosah wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 12:57 pm
I don't think thats *quite* the whole story ... I think there's a normalcy-bias type thing going on, where people can't really believe it can get that bad. By 1957, Harold MacMillan could say, and have it believed, that Britain had never had it so good: http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/date ... 728225.stm but we look at the "high point" of 1957 now and its like a Third World country. Even I only know some of the detail of what things were like then because I was asking about family history all the time as a kid :mrgreen: Since then, living standards have gone up and up and up (though I'd also argue that some things have gone down in quality - noise pollution, clothing quality, food quality in some ways, maybe a few other things).

People wanted a better world for their kids, they wanted their kids to be safer, more secure. Well, we are! But there are unintended consequences to that - most people haven't known anything but security and safety and rising standards - thats an *achievement*! But the unintended consequences are coming back to bite us now, and the swing of the pendulum will probably be fierce.
Good points.Yes,I agree that there may be an element of normalcy bias at play when there is an *issue*.However,what you quite rightly describe as a high standard of living and the unintended consequences,has made people unaware and " mentally unfit",as Arwen said.There is no struggle,no fight- to-survive anymore.I remember the tough times of the late sixties and seventies.Where I was brought up ,nobody had anything,and you lived on your wits and your fists.Your dad had a garden and kept fowls...where I lived anyway.As kids we hustled for money,odd jobs here and there,paper rounds,gardening etc. I read the other day about how few kids have part time jobs these days; We cannot get a Saturday lad these days,and if we do,they cannot hack more than one shift,and they all say, " it's hard work. " It would seem that life ( not for all though) is too easy? The kids have no fight in them.

We appear to have created a huge entitlement culture. "You can't say that,or do that,as it offends ME", oh yes and," I have a RIGHT to do what I like", ( even if it upsets others!) My wife deals with all that c*ap daily,from eight year olds.If they are reprimanded,the snowflake parents are in her and her colleagues faces reciting the above! They are sworn at,spat at,assaulted and the parents will NOT accept that their children have done it. If I had done that,I would have been caned,and then thrashed by my dad.For that reason alone ,it was not commonplace. Last year my wife was stabbed in the back by a child who was punished by witholding playtime for swearing at her.The child used a pencil to do this,and it was nasty.When the child was excluded,the parents came in with their oh-so- normal entitlement rant,about their child being innocent.Regardless of the injury to my wife.

She is at the side of me right now,and she commented that parents of errant children never,EVER,admit that their child is wrong! Recently she was accused of raising her voice at a child ( yes,that is right,they cannot even do that), and an ' investigation' had to be carried out,as little Johnny Snowflake was upset.Mummy Snowflake literally played merry hell. Nothing came of it,the child had made it up!But there was no apology from the parent,even though my wife went through a lot of mental anguish.

The parents and their children are what we have now.I find that even elderly people have the same attitude at times,my mother and mother in law being prime examples. Juxtapose the above school situation into a ' Mass Feeding' situation,and it's gonna look ugly.
In three words I can sum up everything I have learned about life: It goes on.

Robert Frost.

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