Feeding the masses

Food, Nutrition and Agriculture
grenfell
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Re: Feeding the masses

Post by grenfell » Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:14 pm

I tend to treat things like this a a sort of thought exercise.
I don't disagree with any thing that has been said but do wonder just what sort of event would lead to such a situation. We are supposing something that would affect a first world country presumably quite quickly and not causing any significant casualties immediately . I can't help thinking that would mean a couple of things. Firstly the problem would more than likely involve other first word countries and almost certainly Europe which would only serve to exasperate the situation . The third world would probably be totally stuffed . Even wiith western aid there are pretty high mortally rates , remove that aid and the numbers would only rise assuming whatever would be affecting us would affect there too.
More localised , while I can't see a really likely situation just affecting a part of the country that knocks down the infrastructure and leaves people without food ( and presumably power?) , would I think be much less lengthy and be better served by the emergency services . Not totally a smooth operation , there would be at least some dissent and possible rioting but frankly I just don't see it as something that's highly likely.

jansman
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Re: Feeding the masses

Post by jansman » Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:39 pm

Found this: https://www.n-somerset.gov.uk/wp-conten ... an-pdf.pdf

It is 2012, but all I could find for U.K. The plan relies heavily on mass acquisition of food by local authority from Morrison and Sainsbury’s. Given the just in time system, free market and potential panic buying by the population, I reckon the council will be whistling to to the wind ! Interesting that my earlier comment about professional food handling is also part of this plan in section 7.
In three words I can sum up everything I have learned about life: It goes on.

Robert Frost.

Arzosah
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Re: Feeding the masses

Post by Arzosah » Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:17 pm

grenfell wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:14 pm
I tend to treat things like this a a sort of thought exercise.
I don't disagree with any thing that has been said but do wonder just what sort of event would lead to such a situation.
Absolutely these things are thought exercises :) and as to what might lead to such a situation - I think its more likely to be several things happening in quick succession. Maybe a big terrorist attack with worldwide implications (Japan 2020?) plus a big volcano going off, plus a financial crisis caused by the trading algorithms overreacting (which they always do). And maybe opportunists trying to take advantage. Plus ongoing rumbles from chronic situations (4% less food from America's corn belt this year, constant extreme weather here there and everywhere, Mexico, Spain, etc) make everything more difficult and more expensive, when added in. The global system itself is stressed.
More localised , while I can't see a really likely situation just affecting a part of the country that knocks down the infrastructure and leaves people without food ( and presumably power?) , would I think be much less lengthy and be better served by the emergency services . Not totally a smooth operation , there would be at least some dissent and possible rioting but frankly I just don't see it as something that's highly likely.
Yep, anything thats local is going to be better taken care of than something that affects the whole country (or the globe, stands to reason).

As to likelihood ... none of it is likely. But all of it is possible. One in a thousand, one in ten million, one in a billion, don't know ...
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jennyjj01
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Re: Feeding the masses

Post by jennyjj01 » Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:49 pm

jansman wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:39 pm
Found this: https://www.n-somerset.gov.uk/wp-conten ... an-pdf.pdf

It is 2012, but all I could find for U.K. The plan relies heavily on mass acquisition of food by local authority from Morrison and Sainsbury’s. Given the just in time system, free market and potential panic buying by the population, I reckon the council will be whistling to to the wind ! Interesting that my earlier comment about professional food handling is also part of this plan in section 7.
What a fascinating document.
I was mildly amused by page 7 estimates of certain facilities being capable of providing 600 hot meals per day, but being restricted by crockery and cutlery,
600..... What if the need was 600,000 for a day or 600 for 1,000 days? or 600,000 for 1,000 days?

For an emergency such as a Lockerbie style plane crash, or a Grenfell Fire, those plans might be pretty handy, so Kudos to whoever came up with them.

But we all struggle to evaluate the sort of dreadful crisis that this country has luckily avoided since WW2.

What if...
[redacted list of events that could be considered a terrorist cookbook]

... I'll leave a few scenarios...
A pandemic that made All public transport and communal dining potentially suicidal?
Effective closure, destruction or blockade of a major port?
Loss of internet for an entire county. No banking, Ineffective telephony, Credit cards useless. ATM's out of service? Fuel availability?

Morrisons and Sainsburys combined might last a few days, maybe even a few weeks. But we want to live maybe a bit longer than that.

Stonecarver
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Re: Feeding the masses

Post by Stonecarver » Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:41 pm

Did a youtube search and came up with these


Feeding 100s a day
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DJhy-WUYkB0

Feeding 10000s a day

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qdoJroKUwu0

Food is very simple. Think that is the key. Not sure people could keep eating same over and over
One sure sign of the decline of a civilisation is the inability to reproduce the technological achievments of its past

jansman
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Re: Feeding the masses

Post by jansman » Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:01 am

Food is simple, most national diets are simple. It is only simple though, IF you have the food. Just the threat of snow sees shelves stripped.
In three words I can sum up everything I have learned about life: It goes on.

Robert Frost.

grenfell
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Re: Feeding the masses

Post by grenfell » Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:08 am

That last point of jansman' s is I always think down to accountants. Not lack of food as such but limited immmediate stocks to maximise profit which has of course also helped keep prices down . Knock on effect is that people are used to and in many cases rely on cheap food and we shouldn't say it isn't if we look at the percentage of income spent on food now compared to what it was in the past. There would more than likely be an uproar if prices were to rise just to give us a bit more resilience .

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Deeps
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Re: Feeding the masses

Post by Deeps » Tue Jul 02, 2019 3:02 pm

jennyjj01 wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:49 pm
What a fascinating document.
I was mildly amused by page 7 estimates of certain facilities being capable of providing 600 hot meals per day, but being restricted by crockery and cutlery,
600..... What if the need was 600,000 for a day or 600 for 1,000 days? or 600,000 for 1,000 days?

For an emergency such as a Lockerbie style plane crash, or a Grenfell Fire, those plans might be pretty handy, so Kudos to whoever came up with them.

But we all struggle to evaluate the sort of dreadful crisis that this country has luckily avoided since WW2.

What if...
[redacted list of events that could be considered a terrorist cookbook]

... I'll leave a few scenarios...
A pandemic that made All public transport and communal dining potentially suicidal?
Effective closure, destruction or blockade of a major port?
Loss of internet for an entire county. No banking, Ineffective telephony, Credit cards useless. ATM's out of service? Fuel availability?

Morrisons and Sainsburys combined might last a few days, maybe even a few weeks. But we want to live maybe a bit longer than that.
While I'm not geared up for those kind of numbers, I've always had paper plates etc as part of my stores, if water was at a premium you maybe wouldn't want to use it to wash plates. Saying that, as I've been having a big sort out, I can't find them so will have to invest in some more.

Like others, I can't see something on this scale happening in the West, if it was localised then the government would magic up the cash, equipment and manpower to deal with it, if it was on a national or world scale then I guess we'll all be too busy to worry about it. :x

Stonecarver
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Re: Feeding the masses

Post by Stonecarver » Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:36 pm

grenfell wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:08 am
That last point of jansman' s is I always think down to accountants. Not lack of food as such but limited immmediate stocks to maximise profit which has of course also helped keep prices down . Knock on effect is that people are used to and in many cases rely on cheap food and we shouldn't say it isn't if we look at the percentage of income spent on food now compared to what it was in the past. There would more than likely be an uproar if prices were to rise just to give us a bit more resilience .

True
One sure sign of the decline of a civilisation is the inability to reproduce the technological achievments of its past

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jennyjj01
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Re: Feeding the masses

Post by jennyjj01 » Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:53 pm

Deeps wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 3:02 pm

While I'm not geared up for those kind of numbers, I've always had paper plates etc as part of my stores, if water was at a premium you maybe wouldn't want to use it to wash plates. Saying that, as I've been having a big sort out, I can't find them so will have to invest in some more.
A year's worth of paper plates is just a few quid from poundland. And some bin bags to put them in while storing the dirty ones to power the rocket stove.
Like others, I can't see something on this scale happening in the West,
I can. Maybe I'm more pessimistic ( Lived through the 70s ). Distressed by current events. That's why I had to redact a list as long as your arm. Didn't want to give anyone the wrong idea.

Actually. no, not pessimistic now I have my preps. Bring it on. Just don't nobble me by sending something I didn't prep for :)

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