Catastrophic Bleeds

[Malthouse]

The Medical Kit thread keeps being distracted by the discussion about whether to include a Combat Application Tourniquet (CAT).

So I thought it might be helpful to create a specific thread? To stop that one from going in circles??

Depending on what situation you are prepping for would depend what is worth having.. in a SHTF got to ask your self if you use a CAT where is the further treatment coming from.. i have used them for real a few times now but always knew surgical support was there.. basic wound care and scrupulous wound cleaning.. more people are saved by the basics.. realise limitations of your situation and plan accordingly. If you cant stop a bleed with basic methods you will likely need surgical procedures

Exactly, I carry a CAT at work but not in my personal kit. I have in the past been able to apply enough pressure to keep the casualty stable until help arrives, when I am at work I am the help so need the CAT in order to be able to move and do all the other stuff I need to do.

So in short, think about what you are going to do once you have used the tourniquet.

How long is it going to take to get more help, how skilled and resourced will that help be?

I guess it is too cruel to contemplate letting someone bleed out and die, for the want of a 20 quid bit of kit. So by all means include a CAT in your first aid equipment. However, having applied it you need to make a major effort to get help or to get the casualty to help.

[itsybitsy]

I don't necessarily think the thread is being 'derailed' as such. Sometimes we do veer off on a different tangent in a thread. If the mods aren't worried, you don't need to either.

[Malthouse]

If the mods aren't worried, you don't need to either.

I was not worried, one way or the other

[redskies]

Definitely with you on the wound cleaning; during WWI, if I'm remembering correctly, more died from infection than any other cause. And a lot of those folks could have been saved. Looking at medical practices back through the ages, it astonishes me that the human race survived, with particular reference to the use of fleams and the fact that they were rarely, if ever, cleaned between patients!

[mallie99]

Definitely with you on the wound cleaning; during WWI, if I'm remembering correctly, more died from infection than any other cause. And a lot of those folks could have been saved. Looking at medical practices back through the ages, it astonishes me that the human race survived, with particular reference to the use of fleams and the fact that they were rarely, if ever, cleaned between patients!

Survival of the fittest...

[Werecat]

If you cant stop a bleed with basic methods you will likely need surgical procedures

Exactly, I carry a CAT at work but not in my personal kit. I have in the past been able to apply enough pressure to keep the casualty stable until help arrives, when I am at work I am the help so need the CAT in order to be able to move and do all the other stuff I need to do.

So in short, think about what you are going to do once you have used the tourniquet.

A CAT can be used to control the bleeding, while you apply dressings (pressure bandages/pack-to-bone). Afterwards you can try to release the CAT and see if the bleeding starts. Even non-dressed wounds can stop bleeding by application of a temporary CAT, since the CAT gives the blood time to coagulate. Wouldn't hold my breath for that though, but better than nothing.

Even post-SHTF i'd still carry my CAT. It lets me control my bleeding, so instead of exsanguination (spelling?) over minutes i can buy myself and my friends hours to control the bleeding, and when the numbness sets in in the limb maybe even wound cleaning. It might not save my life in the end, but it will give me a lot better chances.

So by all means include a CAT in your first aid equipment. However, having applied it you need to make a major effort to get help or to get the casualty to help.

True, both pre- and post-SHTF.

[MEDIC2012]

I carry a CAT Tourniquet, Celox, Israeli Dressings for catastrophic bleeding all three are now being used by the UK frontline ambulance services lessons learned from the military in Afghanistan obviously ideally get some training with them they work well in combination and once the Celox and pressure with the dressing has done its job you can loosen the CAT