Cyber attack on hospitals and other essentials

Medical and Healthcare
medicmark
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Re: Cyber attack on hospitals and other essentials

Post by medicmark »

In a SHTF situation I dont think many people will be getting much medication, unless they are in patients as there could be an interuption to resupply, think of it as the meds as preps, we aint giving them out until sure we can get more. one thing to remember is there is not always a pharmacist physically in the hospital (own trust specifically), if needed they come in out of hours and its only for time critical meds. we have loads of certain stuff but as I stated previously its limited. we have to get resupplied daily, so, if they cant get to us, limited prep time and rationing.
Drcamburn
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Re: Cyber attack on hospitals and other essentials

Post by Drcamburn »

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Last edited by Drcamburn on Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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jansman
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Re: Cyber attack on hospitals and other essentials

Post by jansman »

Drcamburn wrote:I notice a lot of people are saying about pharmacys here but in a full scale global cyber attack I wouldn't count on them.

Firstly, in a global cyber attack there's a chance the pharmacy could go offline. Pretty much everything in a pharmacy is computer controlled, and although all pharmacys should have a offline box, most stores will never had used it and we probably just shut.

Secondly, most pharmacys would only do an emergency supply of medication if the doctors is shut, and even then it's upto the pharmacist how to deal with it. From experience you'd only likely get about a week of tablets and have to pay a prescription charge for the privilege. Plus if you charge in demanding an emergency supply you probably wouldn't get one. No-one likes to be told how to do their job, and you'd be just another person in a long line of people demanding their medications.

Finally about all the shared medical records holding, once again in my experience, this isn't as smooth as youd make it out to be. The coverage is patchy at best, due to both surgery and pharmacy non-compliance, so I wouldn't rely on the system. Plus in a cyber attack it would probably go down too.

From a prepper standpoint I kinda feel that turning up to a pharmacy on the day SHTF goes against the point of what we do. When surgerys a close for a few days for christmas or easter for example, most pharmacys go mental as the surgery is closed for two days, and everyone is panicking about their medications. Imagine the chaos from the much worse scenario of the surgery being closed for the forseeable future. Personally id just ask the surgery if you can get an extra prescription to keep you going for a month or two, cut down of medication as much as possible (and I appreciate not everyone can). The surgery will probably be hesitant at first but if you keep asking, you might get a few weeks to keep you going. And grab a hard copy of your records, as that's a great idea I never thought of.
I live opposite a pharmacy,and what you say about being busy on high days and holidays is true upon observation of the foot/traffic.Its a busy place anyway on a normal day.

My own feelings about the 'System' crashing is that ( other than short term) is YOYO.You are On Your Own. Just reading this thread makes me realise how many folks depend on The System for life - preserving drugs.My elderly mother and the in - laws would,frankly,have been dead a long time ago without the NHS.

My daughter works in medical supply.Their computer system was robust enough to stand last weeks hack.However,protocol demanded a security shut down to prevent potential disaster.It will be next week before production is back to normal speed,she tells me. And that was a ' minor' incident!

In a real,full- on, SHTF, all computers knackered ( or only a few key ones), it ain't gonna be pretty.Sadly, we live in a very State - dependent system.Life is now artificially extended ( and don't get me wrong,we all like living!), but it does come at a cost.The ultimate price may well be that the whole roof comes crashing down.
In three words I can sum up everything I have learned about life: It goes on.

Robert Frost.

Covid 19: After that level of weirdness ,any situation is certainly possible.

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diamond lil
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Re: Cyber attack on hospitals and other essentials

Post by diamond lil »

I think we all need to quietly save a stash of vital meds, request repeat prescriptions a few days early every month. Read up on any possible herbal treatment and apart from that, relax and enjoy the days :mrgreen:
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Brambles
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Re: Cyber attack on hospitals and other essentials

Post by Brambles »

katilea wrote:I've been thinking since the reporting of this cyber attack on NHS (and other businesses worldwide) what if it was trial run for a larger incident and what happen if next time they managed to completely bring the NHS system down so patient records were lost, would we still get prescriptions from our GP on the basis they knew us and knew what we needed or would they be unable to prescribe anything to anyone?
It would only be the digital copies that were lost. Every GP still has a hard copy of each patient's records which are regularly updated and GP's can still presribe medications on hand written prescription notepads.

What if other services were also attacked? Utilities so people had no gas/electric? would local shops/supermarkets still sell food to people who had cash (assuming tills etc wouldn't work - I rely on internet shopping as housebound and everything been bought online and delivered to me)
You bet shops would sell foods, they still have to make a profit and most have contingency plans in place to accept cash only. Buying online, you're stuffed.


How long would it be likely to last before Govt could get things up and running again?
How long is a piece of string? Nobody knows.


How would you plan if you knew it maybe a future possibility?
If you're generally prepared, you're prepared for this, it's quite simple really. And on that note I'm going to take Lil's advice and relax and enjoy the days :D
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain~anon
Drcamburn
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Re: Cyber attack on hospitals and other essentials

Post by Drcamburn »

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Last edited by Drcamburn on Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If you work, you eat, it's as simple as that.
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Brambles
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Re: Cyber attack on hospitals and other essentials

Post by Brambles »

Drcamburn wrote:
Brambles wrote:
katilea wrote:I've been thinking since the reporting of this cyber attack on NHS (and other businesses worldwide) what if it was trial run for a larger incident and what happen if next time they managed to completely bring the NHS system down so patient records were lost, would we still get prescriptions from our GP on the basis they knew us and knew what we needed or would they be unable to prescribe anything to anyone?
It would only be the digital copies that were lost. Every GP still has a hard copy of each patient's records which are regularly updated and GP's can still presribe medications on hand written prescription notepads.

Although they could still access the records it would be very time consuming, plus the system crashing would probably take out the appointment software so you'd be very unlikely to actually get to see someone. There's a lot of news stories about people being turned away from hospitals that weekend, GP surgeries would be similarly affected.

What if other services were also attacked? Utilities so people had no gas/electric? would local shops/supermarkets still sell food to people who had cash (assuming tills etc wouldn't work - I rely on internet shopping as housebound and everything been bought online and delivered to me)
You bet shops would sell foods, they still have to make a profit and most have contingency plans in place to accept cash only. Buying online, you're stuffed.

I wouldn't rely on local shops still trading. If they're anything like my pharmacy, if the computers went down I don't think if be able to even open the till let alone trade. Last week my lights went out and we considered closed the pharmacy as it was dark. Although shops, pharmacies and whatever have contingency plans in place not everyone's gunna stick to them. Even if the place is using their contingency plan, it'll probably be the first time they've ever used it, so the service will be awful and you'll be hanging around for a while.


How long would it be likely to last before Govt could get things up and running again?
How long is a piece of string? Nobody knows.

Pretty much.


How would you plan if you knew it maybe a future possibility?
If you're generally prepared, you're prepared for this, it's quite simple really. And on that note I'm going to take Lil's advice and relax and enjoy the days :D

The main three things I'd go for would be too;
-Build up a month of two supply of essential meds.
-Build an extensive first aid kit.
-Get a hard copy of your medical records and keep them up to date.
I'd be very surprised if shops stayed closed for more than a day or so if there is stock on the shelves, however I wouldn't be one of those shopping and I would guess most of us have to wait to see their GP now. Yep there would be problems, but in exceptional circumstances you have to expect that. Why the problem having to wait around for a while?
Maybe I'm lucky, I don't have a problem waiting. :)
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain~anon
pseudonym
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Re: Cyber attack on hospitals and other essentials

Post by pseudonym »

diamond lil wrote:I think we all need to quietly save a stash of vital meds, request repeat prescriptions a few days early every month. Read up on any possible herbal treatment and apart from that, relax and enjoy the days :mrgreen:
Using that method I have an extra 3 Months stored so far.
Two is one and one is none, but three is even better.
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Brambles
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Re: Cyber attack on hospitals and other essentials

Post by Brambles »

pseudonym wrote:
diamond lil wrote:I think we all need to quietly save a stash of vital meds, request repeat prescriptions a few days early every month. Read up on any possible herbal treatment and apart from that, relax and enjoy the days :mrgreen:
Using that method I have an extra 3 Months stored so far.
Me too. :)
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain~anon
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diamond lil
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Re: Cyber attack on hospitals and other essentials

Post by diamond lil »

I'm currently reading a book on the home front in WW1. One thing that really got to people was the queues for food. Do you think that would happen again? ie when a shop got potatoes in, word got out and the queue stretched round the block. Some in London had thousands of people waiting. Who nowadays has time to stand and wait that long? :shock: