Water collection / containers

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MBJ
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Water collection / containers

Post by MBJ »

Hi guys,

As some of you will know, I'm fairly new around here and so I've been concentrating on water and food storage. I'm happy to report that I now have just under 3 weeks worth of water, and that I'm trying to take things to the next level.

I'm hoping to install some rainwater butts in the very near future, but I'm wondering what to do with the water once it's captured. Do people let it sit or do they store it elsewhere? I was thinking I could get some containers and add it to my water stores, but most of the containers I've looked at seem expensive for what they are. So people, help me out!

Cheers.
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Deeps
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Re: Water collection / containers

Post by Deeps »

Storage is handy of course, I keep the best part of a couple hundred litres as 'ready use' but as a rule its not something we're short of in the UK so purification is also an option. Been debated a lot on here everything from Millbanks and boiling/puritabs/bleach to Sawyer straws and other forms of filters.

Water is bulky, there's no way round that. I've got 6 25L containers plus other smaller bottles taking it towards the 200L. That should hopefully see me through any short term issues. I've also got a pond in my garden with roughly another 1000L but its pretty manky at the moment but if need by, I've a couple of Sawyers that will do a turn and a gazillion puritabs and plenty means to boil water. We're in the process of installing a water butt to be fed from the shed, that's another 100L but again, will need to be made safe to drink if that's the path we go down. As I say, water generally isn't an issue in the UK, cleaning it is the key, unless of course you can't leave the house for whatever reason but if we're at that stage then we're talking serious doo-doo.
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shocker
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Re: Water collection / containers

Post by shocker »

re- containers- its worth looking through the small ads/classifieds in local papers for people clearing out old homebrewing stuff. You may get some gallon glass demijohns if really lucky, old pressure barrels or 25 litre buckets with lids and maybe even a tap.

I use a few of those buckets myself and its cheap and easy to fit a plastic tap from Wilkos or 3bay. TBH most of my buckets come from non-nasty sheep foot dip powder (its basically bi carb).Or swimming pool additives. So its worth asking any farmers, swimming pool or hot tub owners/operators or even big aquarium owners/shops. Make sure the buckets have been used for human food safe and non-oil-based products though.

The same goes for people clearing out caravanning stuff, there are 25L plastic jerrycans a plenty on that scene. Even better are the rolling type ones that look like a garden roller, or the barrow type. Very handy for moving water about. Look online or in phone books to see if there is a caravan breakers in your area, or a dealer that takes part exchange- they are often glad to offload accessories.

Real ales are occasionally supplied to small volume sellers in cardboard boxed, 25L poly cubes. Not very common at the moment but they are out there.

Other than that it may be worth asking around any restaurants/cafes for anything from plastic gallon containers upwards. Quite a lot of food products come in big buckets or tubs these days. The same applies about human consumption and oil base.

Even cheap dustbins will do the job. If they are not made of food safe plastic, and you will be able to tell from the little triangle with a number inside (online lookup) then you can line them with a big poly bag that is foodsafe. Most white or clear bags are, but do check!

Good luck, I will post up any more that come to mind. ;)
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Brambles
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Re: Water collection / containers

Post by Brambles »

I think a lot of us here plan on using collected rainwater if need be including me. I don't have a huge amount of drinking water stored, I do have a large hot water tank and a header tank plus two waterbutts. To help keep the waterbutts algae free I have used these.

http://www.emsustains.co.uk/EM-ceramics.htm

I lost them in a move and haven't got round to replacing them. They really helped keeping the water clear. Obviously the water still needs making safe.

It's something I need to address myself.
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain~anon
gamekeeper752
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Re: Water collection / containers

Post by gamekeeper752 »

Well with the veg garden and spuds in bags and 2 green houses I've got now 2000 gallons of water storage which seems a lot but is only 10 water-buts and old bins with plastic bags in and covered, and I recycle all my bath and shower water through the toilet,or off into a barrel for the fruit trees,seems you can never have enough.

Just replaced the lower guttering from the neighbours garage to run into another water-but, I help them out as they are both very elderly and have no use for the runoff,but really could use with a bit of rain as I'm down to my last 400 gallons,anyway I've never really worried about long term water storage for drinking,but I do have a pack of 2 litre jobs, which will cover me for drinking and cooking ,everything else will be dirty water recycled one way or the other and baby wet wipes(disposable of course) after a few days if things are really bad, then i shall go hunting for the stuff , we do have lots of streams round here and I've marked out 2 marshy areas in the lowest place along the water course to dig a seep.
So that's me now going outside to dance to the gods of water and rain.
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Arzosah
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Re: Water collection / containers

Post by Arzosah »

What to do with stored water ... its a good question. Right now - lots of areas have had very little rain for several weeks, don't know if you're in an area like that (I am!) but you might have been needing it to water your seedlings, for instance.

If your storage is full - you could use *more* water from a downpour to wash the windows, wash the car, the patio, the greenhouse, whatever. If it keeps coming, you could actually draw off some in big jugs to use to flush the toilet?

Basically - at nearly 3 weeks worth of water, you're doing really, really well, and if anybody else has that much, then they live on a farm or a smallholding, probably! Think about it - if you needed to survive on your stored water for 3 weeks, then the society around you has much bigger problems, the dreaded zombie apocalypse!

My advice - research about water purification (ooh, and take up shocker's advice about containers, thats good) and as far as *things* are concerned, move on to the next prep, you're doing great. I'll be researching Brambles' info myself, I'd not heard of that firm or that technology.
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yorkshirewolf
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Re: Water collection / containers

Post by yorkshirewolf »

Be careful storing water in clear/opaque containers as algae can grow, especially if it gets any sunlight.

The best storage containers i've found are the solid black 20L MOD ones, they usually go for about £20 each, but you can get them in bulk if you find somewhere thats just got a load in.

Best way to make water last a bit better is to add a few steri-tabs or a low dose of milton fluid, I have a large 350L outdoor water-butt fed from the roof, and with a filter and a few capfulls of Milton every few weeks, it seems to keep very well, comes out clean and fresh smelling anyway! - I'd still boil it if i were going to drink it though.

Have a read here: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=4124
MBJ
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Re: Water collection / containers

Post by MBJ »

First of all thank you all for the great replies.
Deeps wrote:Water is bulky, there's no way round that.

As I say, water generally isn't an issue in the UK, cleaning it is the key
I think purification is very important. What do you think of using a Sawyer Mini Filter and say boiling? I'm also looking into Chlorine Dioxide tablets too.
shocker wrote:re- containers- its worth looking through the small ads/classifieds in local papers for people clearing out old homebrewing stuff.

Good luck, I will post up any more that come to mind. ;)
Cheers for all the suggestions, I hadn't considered small adds or things like the Loot.
Brambles wrote:I think a lot of us here plan on using collected rainwater if need be including me.

To help keep the waterbutts algae free I have used these.

http://www.emsustains.co.uk/EM-ceramics.htm

I lost them in a move and haven't got round to replacing them. They really helped keeping the water clear. Obviously the water still needs making safe.

It's something I need to address myself.
Those ceramics looks great. Do you mind me asking how you got your last lot?
Arzosah wrote:What to do with stored water ... its a good question. Right now - lots of areas have had very little rain for several weeks, don't know if you're in an area like that (I am!) but you might have been needing it to water your seedlings, for instance.

Basically - at nearly 3 weeks worth of water, you're doing really, really well,

My advice - research about water purification (ooh, and take up shocker's advice about containers, thats good) and as far as *things* are concerned, move on to the next prep, you're doing great. I'll be researching Brambles' info myself, I'd not heard of that firm or that technology.
I live up North near Manchester so it's always raining up here. That's why I'm worried about what to do with the water once the butts are full as I imagine that will happen quite quickly. Thankfully I've now got some ideas on how to store it.

Cheers for the encouragement btw.

As for my next prep (food) I've about over a week and a half (maybe more since I last checked) and that's based on 2500 calories per day. I could obviously stretch that out to much longer if I had to ration it. I suppose the goal is to get to a month for water and food, and then maybe go from there.
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Jamesey1981
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Re: Water collection / containers

Post by Jamesey1981 »

Microfiltration (e.g. Sawyer) then boiling kills everything
Microfiltration then chlorine dioxide kills everything
Filtration (eg millbank bag) then boiling kills everything
Boiling alone will kill everything, but it'll probably taste like crap.
Sawyer alone leaves viruses, chlorine dioxide alone will kill most things in perfect conditions, but any turbidity in the water reduces its effectiveness, so to be sure it's better to filter first, millbank bag just removes grot and leaves all the microscopic nasties, so it needs to be used with another method of purification.

None of those methods remove chemical contamination, so if that's the case then you'd need to distill, but even then that only removes chemicals that have a higher boiling point than water.
Reverse osmosis can get rid of chemicals but it's expensive.

My purification methods are Sawyer then chlorine dioxide if I'm on the move, and millbank bag then boil if I'm at a base camp kind of situation, easier to process largish amounts of water that way, but the Sawyer is handy as its light and reasonably quick if you're just filling a bottle and you have ground to cover, then you can leave the chlorine dioxide to do its thing. I always keep a little clean water back in the bottom of my bottles to back flush the Sawyer with the syringe after using it, one syringe full doesn't give it a proper clean out, but it gets rid of the worst of it so it lasts a lot longer before the flow slows down too much.

How you wish to adapt any of that to your situation is up to you, I'm coming for a backpackers perspective, your needs may be different depending on your water needs and whether you can afford to drop the cash on something big, heavy and expensive for home use, those things are available but outside my area of expertise.
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Deeps
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Re: Water collection / containers

Post by Deeps »

Filtering will remove the larger debris, boiling will kill the nasties. Youtube is your friend, there's all sorts of inspired ways folk have done it. I like my Sawyers, you can drink straight from whatever source you can get, saying that we've got really 'precious' about water, 30 odd years ago as a yoof hill walking we used to just check upstream to make sure there was nothing dead in the water and drink straight from the burn. I've got mates who have the bottles with the filters in the cap which are easy to operate and less finicky than back flushing the Sawyers, there's plenty options out there.

As for food, the 'store what you eat, eat what you store' mantra makes a lot of sense, its not always possible to do like for like depending on your diet but I try and use things that can be worked into our normal eating. Tins of sweetcorn where we normally use frozen for example, and depending on how long you think you'll need them for I wouldn't get too bogged down with the calories, most of us carry a few spare calories around and if you're thinking short to medium term as long as you're not hungry its not going to matter too much. Longer term then you need to think more about a balanced diet. Rice and pasta keeps for ages and will fill you up, you can get 1/2L packets of passata which can make a tomato ragu and throw in whatever you fancy, I've got loads of dehydrated veg that I add to packet stuff or to take up the hills. There's quite a bit on the food front on here in the different threads, see what works for you, what I eat you might not fancy. Like you my goal was to have a months worth of food for me and the missus, I've got a good bit more than that now just by adding every time I go to the shops, God knows how many tins of tuna I have now, things I eat I store if I can, even things like soya sauce. I've also been making my own dehydrated scrans to take hill walking etc, they take a bit longer to reconstitute than the freeze dried ones but I can make them to my own taste and they're a lot cheaper too. I base pretty much all my preps on staying put so loads of tins, jars and packets but if you intend to 'bug out' you'll need a different strategy.