Where should I go in case when SHTF

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fightfear
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Re: Where should I go in case when SHTF

Post by fightfear » Fri Aug 31, 2018 9:53 am

Thanks Arzosah that's very interesting. Emergency ladders, security window film, better locks, being 'gray'... I have a lot to learn and think about.I was thinking about all of your replies and it seems this 'where do I go' thing seems to be a bit of an issue for other too. There doesn't seem to be a good consensus or a 'universal' solution mentioned on here on this subject. I keep wondering if there are therefore any plans for preppers to join forces in case of SHTF and to have an agreed place to go to and live as a community. I've seen it mentioned on here a few times that there's strength in numbers and I couldn't agree more. Different people will have different skills and would be able to contribute in various ways plus it's much safer from the security perspective. Maybe each person could put more focus on a certain skill during their prepping in order to ensure that the group as a whole would have as much knowledge as possible. For example, one could learn to deal with killing/preparing animals for food and fur (maybe someone living on a farm). Someone else could focus on being able to help with dental issues or health issues in general (perhaps a doctor or a nurse or even someone with general interest in those things). Another person could train or at least read about tool making or engine repair or something else and so on. Everyone could get written literature on their subject and bring it with them on arrival. We could then learn all kinds of skills from each other should the worst happen.

Of course someone would need to offer their own place for that purpose although I don't really see that being an issue as it would be beneficial as hell for that individual. He could stay at his own farm (or whatever it would be) and would have an influx of people that would help him and each other in order to survive. If the idea took off I for one would even be willing to pay a small fee regularly each month or whatever to that person to keep such place ready for others to arrive etc when SHTF (to stock extra food, tools etc). If enough of us would do it then it wouldn't require much outlay at all. £5 or even half that a month from as little as say 20 people should be more than sufficient and with enough participants after few years any unused money could grow to a pile big enough to buy bigger things like engines, vehicles or maybe even containers or cabins to live in/store things in etc. A couple of quid a month would make zero difference to our everyday lives but could make all the difference in case of.

Not only the rich can have 'proper' and organized Bug-out places to go to - we could all do it too. There could be meetings once or twice a year at that place to ensure we know and trust each other enough to do it all and also to get used to the area. I know it's not much time to gain trust when you meet once a year but if SHTF we'd be put in a position sooner or later when we'd have to trust other people to survive anyway - even if only short term/certain situations - and they'd most likely be complete strangers rather than someone who you converse with for years and meet every now and then. I'm sure there would be plenty of people on here - like myself - living in cities that would consider such initiative. Those with more experience and the means to organise it at their own home or other facilities might be interested too.
What do you guys think? Is that something that was perhaps already discussed on here? If so, could someone post a link to that topic please? Given our shared interest in the subject I think together it could work.

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Deeps
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Re: Where should I go in case when SHTF

Post by Deeps » Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:34 pm

FF, I've hung off responding to see if anyone else wanted to chip in. While the idea of some kind of prepper group or community appeals on some levels I'm not sure how practical it would be in reality. Given your scenario of having a farm or the like to basically 'bug out' to might appeal, what is your other half going to say about leaving all your stuff behind to go and defend someone else's. Then there's the whole 'who's in charge' thing, not everyone wants to be a small cog and in any group that would have a purpose like pulling together to defend a site there needs to be a hierarchy. For these things to work they generally need to be drilled and disciplined. The more people in the mix the more egos and quirks, its not as easy as you might think.

Prepper groups are a recurring theme though so there is an interest in it. If you can get a group together then good luck to you, I' suggest it was pretty local though ideally, especially if you are thinking of prepping for solar flares etc, you'll not get far if everything run on elastictrickery is gubbed.

I've posted before that as we live in communities anyway, it might be worth forging good relations with neighbours and friends that live nearby. They might not be out and out preppers or even anything remotely resembling a prepper but if you have that bond to start with, that has to be worth something as opposed to some random who you might not have anything in common with other than you both consider yourself preppers.

Join clubs or groups that are sort of 'preppery', you might meet some like minded individuals on your doorstep. Whether its shooting or fishing or hillwalking clubs or whatever. There's certainly no harm asking on places like this but we tend to be quite a furtive bunch. I've met a few folk online with similar interests for a catch up, its doable and if nothing else you can learn from each other. I'd get your virtual face known 'round the bazaars' though if you want to meet people, if they have a feel for your online presence then they'll know if they want to meet up. Good luck with it mate.

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xplosiv1
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Re: Where should I go in case when SHTF

Post by xplosiv1 » Sat Sep 01, 2018 3:27 am

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preparedsurrey
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Re: Where should I go in case when SHTF

Post by preparedsurrey » Sat Sep 01, 2018 10:08 pm

Living near Croydon and having friends who were near Reeves corner when it was burned in the last riots I would say if you have any chance get as far away as possible, the first sign of a lack of authority and the place will go to hell in a hand basket at top speed, no skills will save you when the mob decide to go door to door taking whatever they can lay their hands on and doing whatever they like just because they can, some of them will be armed.
My prediction would be that the majority of the place will be in flames (causing millions of pounds worth of improvements) if there is a situation allowing a breakdown or law and order lasting more than 4 days.

In your situation I would head for the coast or into Kent.
If guns are outlawed then only the outlaws will have guns....

grenfell
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Re: Where should I go in case when SHTF

Post by grenfell » Mon Sep 03, 2018 7:36 pm

Deeps wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:34 pm
FF, I've hung off responding to see if anyone else wanted to chip in. While the idea of some kind of prepper group or community appeals on some levels I'm not sure how practical it would be in reality.
I didn't comment because I was away over the weekend but I'll chip in now if you like.
I agree that in principal it's a good idea but getting it to work might prove problematic. Even where to site the place could very easily cause arguments. Some might like the south west as a remote location while others may be worried about the ( remote ) possibility of a tsunami from the canaries . Scotland may appeal but others might be put off by the climate.
Then there's the question of funding which is likely to be higher than a few quid and what the status of the place will be in the here and now. Would it be run as a type of timeshare , holiday home , or even something like a religious commune and what are the tax implications . In my run to the hills thread I posed the question of increasing rural crime which might also be a concern if the retreat is fully stocked but not occupied for periods at a time.
All that aside the biggest hurdle to the idea to me is the problem of timing and to a slightly lesser degree it assumes that an event will be serious enough in nature to make swathes of the country or at least some urban areas unsafe or uninhabitable and it happens over a relatively short period of time. No good having a retreat if people's arrive over a period of years.

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Plymtom
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Re: Where should I go in case when SHTF

Post by Plymtom » Tue Sep 04, 2018 6:35 am

Deeps usually puts his finger on the sort of stance I tale on this sort of thing, everyone must ponder it, and yes in an ideal world a like minded bunch sounds great.... but it's far fetched.
Deeps wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:34 pm
I've posted before that as we live in communities anyway, it might be worth forging good relations with neighbours and friends that live nearby. They might not be out and out preppers or even anything remotely resembling a prepper but if you have that bond to start with, that has to be worth something as opposed to some random who you might not have anything in common with other than you both consider yourself preppers.

Join clubs or groups that are sort of 'preppery', you might meet some like minded individuals on your doorstep. Whether its shooting or fishing or hillwalking clubs or whatever. There's certainly no harm asking on places like this but we tend to be quite a furtive bunch. I've met a few folk online with similar interests for a catch up, its doable and if nothing else you can learn from each other. I'd get your virtual face known 'round the bazaars' though if you want to meet people, if they have a feel for your online presence then they'll know if they want to meet up. Good luck with it mate.
For the first part you need to be in a neighborhood where the inhabitants may be "OK" :lol: I'm pretty sure that some aren't, I do like the idea but it's risky in normal times here, never mind if things went to shite.

To the second part clubs and groups a big thumbs up, although the members of such groups can be too well spread out for a realistic chance of forming something which could work, but as Deeps says you can learn from one another, and you have a useful activity, another thing which strikes me is that I wonder if many of us have become a little isolated either literally or within or interaction circle to such a degree that we yearn for like minded company? Sometimes getting out there and trying something which could be deemed as preppy related actually gets your mind more grounded an less worried about the worst case scenarios, which makes people more help to one another in the lesser ones ;)
I have a strategy, it's not written in stone, nor can it be, this scenario has too many variables, everything about it depends on those variables, being specific is not possible.

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ukpreppergrrl
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Re: Where should I go in case when SHTF

Post by ukpreppergrrl » Sat Sep 08, 2018 5:26 pm

The very quick answer is that no-one can suggest whether you should bug out, stay put, or if the former, where you should go. There isn't enough information to go on. The general advice is never become a refugee unless there is absolutely no other alternative. If you're leaving home with nowhere to go, then you are a refugee. If you are bugging out to somewhere then you have to be certain that: a) you can get there in reasonable safety; b) it is definitely better there than it is where you currently are - better, not equal. If it is equal you are better off staying put thus avoiding the not inconsiderable risk of travel.

As you seem to be starting from the top down (i.e. pick a far-fetched event and what would I do), I would suggest a mind exercise of exactly what sequence of events you think might happen should something like that occur, internationally, nationally and locally, and from that your best course of action may evolve. It's not enough to say "a mega solar flare knocks out all the electricity in UK (so infrastructure is still there but nothing works etc)". That is The Event. But things don't stop at The Event. Other things then happen which will influence what your choices are. Were you or your wife injured in The Event and how will you accommodate that? How do you know nothing will work in the whole of the UK after a solar flare? Personally I doubt that that would be the actual case, I suspect quite a lot will still work. Have you researched this? And how do you know what can and can't be fixed within hours, days or weeks? But if you are correct, then, for example, there are additional things you need to take into consideration for your plan: for example if nothing works, and it cannot be fixed, then this includes the safety systems on all nuclear reactors - their backup electricity supplies only last so long. Without constant cooling fuel rods eventually get very, very, very hot and explode (takes about two weeks from the leccy disappearing according to one documentary I saw). So presumably this now suggests some places you might NOT want to head towards should you decide to bug out. And it's not just nuclear reactors that will go bang. I'm guessing there will be a lot of fires triggered by such a massive solar flare, which may or may not be accessible to any remaining fire service. You might want to give some thought as to where those fires might be in relation to you. And given Croydon's proximity to several airports perhaps consider what happens to airplanes when there is no electricity at an airport and they don't have enough fuel to go anywhere else (this is a national, possibly European blackout we are presuming), and always remember there are more airplanes in the world than there are spaces for airplanes in airports - this was one of the Y2K problems. And still in Croydon, but now on a very local level, regardless of whether or not you subscribe to the "all cars will cease to work" or "very few cars if any will be affected" after a solar flare, in somewhere as crowded as Croydon the result will be the same. Without traffic lights there are enough tosser drivers to cause the roads to block very quickly. It will make little difference if you had a car or even perhaps a motorbike: you won't be getting down the Purley Way anytime soon until the cars, vans and lorries are pushed out of the way.

As for the authorities: what do you think their plans actually are for such a nationwide catastrophe? The government, the police and the military will continue to function at a number of levels, they do have contingency plans and EMP problems are part of those plans. Given the immediate effect of no electricity is no light after dusk and no working alarm systems, it is highly likely that marshall law will be quickly implemented in cities, with London as a priority I suspect (because it has 8.6 million occupants, not because it is "more important"), and Croydon will probably be inside that iron ring. Now you can take the opinion that marshall law = government oppression of the common man, or you can take the opinion that marshal law = the government trying to protect the little man from the not very nice man who would rather use the opportunity presented by darkness to steal your tv and rape your wife. Either way you're going to have to deal with curfew and what roads were passable, now possibly blocked by government road blocks.

On the subject of government, police, military, fire service, medical professionals etc. I know that there are those of the opinion that in a catastrophic scenario it will be every man/woman for him/herself and they will all abandon post to care for themselves and their immediate family. But always bear in mind that not everyone has immediate family: quite a lot of soldiers, for example, are young, with no spouse or children and their parents may be 100s of miles away and they feel a lot closer to their colleagues. Not every copper or health care professional has a family either. A great many chose their profession as a calling and actually put that calling ahead of their personal lives. For some their job is their life. The same is true in civi street. If nothing else the normalcy bias will keep a lot of people at their jobs: electricians will be trying to fix the network etc..

We don't know what your or your wife's jobs are. They may, or may not, influence what your opportunities are. We don't know if you have any family in or around London/Croydon, or elsewhere in the country. Again that may or may not influence your decision.

To my mind speculating about building up a prepper community that will come together after a far-fetched SHTF event occurs and life cannot return to any semblance of normality (which, thus far in our history, it always has done) is a fun mind exercise, but is basically the plot of a pie-in-the-sky post-apocalyptic novel. If you want to down the post-apocalypse mind game route, then work out the precise details, leaving no gaps in the narrative. The obvious gap in your group farm scenario is: how do people get there given they may be 100s of miles away, unable to get out of Croydon because of flood/fire/blockage/illness/injury; and, most notably, what are the criteria for sending up the balloon? And how do you communicate that? You have to trigger early enough to give people time, but are you going to get enough notice? How many false balloons are people going to be prepared to respond to before they refuse to come any more? The timing of bug out is always the one that's never properly addressed beyond a vague keep an eye on reliable media sources and somehow miraculously you'll know! For me that "miraculously" part is a big gap. The devil is in the details!

And one last thing: if you don't feel you have any friends who would be of much use in a post-apocalyptic scenario, you need to look for additional/other local friends. Seriously. That works for every day life too. We all need people we can rely on at least sometimes around us.
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Arzosah
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Re: Where should I go in case when SHTF

Post by Arzosah » Sat Sep 08, 2018 6:37 pm

That's a spectacular post. Thank you!
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Deeps
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Re: Where should I go in case when SHTF

Post by Deeps » Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:05 pm

ukpreppergrrl wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 5:26 pm

And one last thing: if you don't feel you have any friends who would be of much use in a post-apocalyptic scenario, you need to look for additional/other local friends. Seriously. That works for every day life too. We all need people we can rely on at least sometimes around us.
As usual UKPG, I don't disagree with the rest of your post but this bit is the key bit for me. You can dream and scheme about how you would deal with any given prepper scenario but there is no substitute for good people. Just because they don't have 3 months worth of food and a dozen knives doesn't disqualify them for me, they maybe know stuff that I don't or know people who do or whatever. They might just be good decent people, people who you can rely on because you have an affinity with has a lot to be said for it. I'd rather share my stores with mates or neighbours than some randoms that I've met a couple times for a beer fuelled camping weekend, no reason these guys couldn't become good friends but you don't build up loyalty straight away. Throw in a big bucketful of stress and that shared background could come in very handy, loyalty and camaraderie can (and has) gone a long way.

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Arwen Thebard
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Re: Where should I go in case when SHTF

Post by Arwen Thebard » Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:56 am

From experience having lived in a "community" environment before, there are huge advantages in terms of spreading the workload, reducing risks, apportioning costs, having mates around you etc. But........

They take a huge amount of time to establish and those that seem to have survived the best (longest) are almost organic in their development taking decades to reach a good equilibrium.

If you think a community based situation might be ideal for you and your family in case of a SHTF scenario, don't wait, join one now. You will then be a well settled in member should the worst happen.

IMO there are distinct differences with the UK and "The West" in general compared to many other parts of the world, where genuine community involvement and interaction are still quite a normal way of life. (eg; Everyone knows everyone else, helps out with anything and anything when needed, looks after elder / younger family members, freely share equipment and personal items etc)

In many respects we have become solitary animals and community involvement can now seem strange to many people :(
Arwen The Bard

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